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U.S. Department of State
93/10/04 Interview on PBS-TV "MacNeil/Lehrer Newshour"
Office of the Spokesman
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
Office of the Spokesman
For Immediate Release October 4, 1993
INTERVIEW OF
SECRETARY OF STATE WARREN CHRISTOPHER
ON
PBS-TV'S "MacNEIL/LEHRER NEWSHOUR"
October 4, 1993
MS. MARGARET WARNER: Earlier this afternoon I talked with Secretary of
State Warren Christopher about the situation in Somalia. The interview
was in the State Department's Briefing Room.
SECRETARY CHRISTOPHER: I'll just have to ask you to understand when I
say [that] some Americans are missing but it is best for me not to try
to be more specific.
MS. WARNER: Would you consider these Americans -- without getting into
specifics, does the American Government consider them prisoners or
hostages?
SECRETARY CHRISTOPHER: Let me just say this: Some Americans are
missing. We hold General Aideed responsible for them. They ought to be
returned immediately. It's important that no harm come to them. The
United States has quite an array of things that we might do if they are
not returned promptly. I don't want to be more specific than that
tonight, Margaret.
MS. WARNER: CNN is showing a videotape of one U.S. soldier that they
say has been captured; and of course there are also reports that some of
the U.S. soldiers who were killed, their bodies have been paraded
through Mogadishu. What does that do to the prospects for maintaining
American public support for the mission there?
SECRETARY CHRISTOPHER: This is a time for us to be very steady in our
purpose. This is no time for the United states to start talking about
departure. I think it's a time for us to be steady, to continue doing
what we're doing to try to establish security there. That's what we
came there for in the first place, to establish security so as to end
starvation.
I think until we finish that job, we shouldn't talk about leaving,
especially tonight.
MS. WARNER: Do you think security can be established there, short of
taking over the country?
SECRETARY CHRISTOPHER: Well, there's only a small part of the country
where this problem is taking place -- the south part of Mogadishu. Yes,
I think the United States can, with the assistance of other U.N. troops,
establish security there.
We're sending in some re-inforcements tonight, you know -- some harder
armor, some tanks, and some Bradley vehicles -- which I think will give
our forces more security than in the past. Also, we're sending in two
gunships which should be helpful in that regard as well.
MS. WARNER: Do you think that a secure environment can be established
without capturing Aideed?
SECRETARY CHRISTOPHER: I think General Aideed is not the central
problem here. The central problem is violence against United States
forces. Those are forces there on a humanitarian mission, to provide
security. There is just no excuse for them to be attacked in the way
that they were. I think the United States will have a wide array of
options in responding to that kind of conduct against United States
forces.
MS. WARNER: And just so I understand clearly here, as you see it, the
U. S. Mission is not to be necessarily -- to stay as long as the U.N.
may stay to complete nation-building. But where is the line here at
which point U.S. forces could get out?
SECRETARY CHRISTOPHER: I'm glad to have a chance to comment on that,
Margaret. We went in last November at President Bush's direction, as
you know. Our purpose was basically a security purpose. We needed to
establish security so we could end the starvation there. Starvation was
being caused by the very warlords who are causing the trouble now.
We were able to establish a secure environment and bring an end to the
starvation and save hundreds of thousands of people. Now we have a
recurrence of that kind of violence, this time coming from General
Aideed and his forces. I think before the United States can leave in
any way that is satisfactory, we must establish a secure environment.
The other part of the operation -- that is, the United Nations operation
-- is to try to build the nation, to restore government there. That's
the United Nations operation.
The United States job was to establish a secure environment. When that
job is done, we should leave. We should perhaps assist the United
Nations in various ways. Theirs is a laudable purpose, but it's a
different purpose than our initial purpose. When our job is done, we
should leave.
MS. WARNER: And how long do you think that will take -- the U.S. part?
SECRETARY CHRISTOPHER: Well, I think that can be done in a relatively
short period of time. But tonight is not the night to talk about
leaving. I understand very much the motives that people -- the
reaction, the emotional reaction of people who say we must leave right
now. But when United States forces have been attacked in the way they
have been today, I think we must be steady in our purpose. We must work
to establish a secure environment; and I don't think that's a prolonged
task, but it's a very important task.
MS. WARNER: The President said today that the U.S. wants to prevent
Somalia from sliding back into the anarchy that put all of these people
at risk, all the Somalis at risk, from starvation. But if you were
speaking to the family of a serviceman who just died, why are U.S.
interests at stake in preventing starvation in Somalia?
SECRETARY CHRISTOPHER: I would say to the people -- and it would be a
very difficult call, of course -- that their son or daughter had died --
I don't think any women have died -- that their child had died, their
son had died, in the service of his country and in one of our most
laudable services, an humanitarian mission in which we were trying to
prevent mass starvation in a country where hundreds of thousands of
people had died through starvation.
I think our purpose was to establish enough security there so that the
relief food could get through. I would think, although nothing would
comfort a family in that situation, that that's the purpose that the
United States has long held around the world and it's one which we will
undertake again under appropriate circumstances.
MS. WARNER: I don't know if you've talked to anyone on the Hill today,
but of course there have been renewed calls for re-examining this whole
mission. If incidents like this continue, are you confident that you
can maintain Hill support?
SECRETARY CHRISTOPHER: I think that we'll maintain Hill support for
backing up our troops. Our troops were savagely attacked last night in
the most improper way. We were conducting a humanitarian mission. I'd
be very surprised if people on Capitol Hill would not support that. I
quite understand that they want to establish an end to this mission but
only after we establish the security of our forces.
MS. WARNER: And what does an incident such as the one yesterday do to
President Clinton's efforts and your own to find a political solution
here?
SECRETARY CHRISTOPHER: I think it gives an even heighten need for that.
I think we must press forward on that track.
I talked to Secretary General Boutros Ghali over the weekend, and he
assured me that he was going to press forward with that with his trip to
the region in the near future. This incident only heightens the need
for going forward on that track, but at
the same time it does not in any way lessen the need for the United
States to be steady in trying to secure the environment there and to
prevent, as the President said today, lurching back into a condition of
massive starvation.
MS. WARNER: Can Aideed supporters be part of that political solution?
SECRETARY CHRISTOPHER: I think it's very difficult for people who
actually have an arrest warrant out for them, who have been part of
these endeavors, to be part of that solution; but I would not rule out
that some supporters of his, some members of his clan who are perhaps
innocent in these matters, to be part of the solution. But for Aideed
himself to be part of the solution, I think is very difficult at this
moment.
MS. WARNER: Let me ask you finally, as you're aware, during the Cold
War the U.S. and the then-Soviet Union never participated as
peacekeepers, in part because of the fear that they would simply become
targets.
When you look at how U.S. soldiers are being treated and welcomed or not
welcomed in Somalia, do you think there is still some wisdom in perhaps
thinking twice or three times before sending U.S. troops into
peacekeeping?
SECRETARY CHRISTOPHER: I always think it is worthwhile, thinking twice
or three times before sending U.S. troops anyplace, Margaret. But I
think in this new period, United States troops can be part of
peacekeeping under appropriate circumstances.
I don't think that the United States troops are more a target because of
being United States troops than otherwise. I think the reasons in the
Cold War for not sending them in were people thought it was a polarized
situation. That bi-polar situation has vanished, so under strictly
limited and appropriate circumstances I think United States troops can
be used.
But as we have been saying over the last couple of weeks, we are going
to screen very carefully the places where United States troops go in.
They have to have an important purpose, they have to be doing a job that
can be successful, and they have to have an exit strategy.
MS. WARNER: Would Somalia have fit these new criteria if you were faced
with that choice today?
SECRETARY CHRISTOPHER: It's hard to go back. You really can't do
history in a subjunctive mode. I wouldn't want to try to challenge
President Bush's sending them there. But I think one of the reasons
that we want to get out when we can, when our job is done, is because it
had a very limited purpose and we ought to try to accomplish that
purpose and then leave.
* * * * *
MR. ROBERT MacNEIL: The situation in Russia was the second part of
Margaret Warner's interview this afternoon with Secretary of State
Christopher. She asked him about the situation in the Russian capital
tonight.
MS. WARNER: Mr. Secretary, what can you tell us? We're still seeing
footage of the Parliament building burning in Moscow. What can you tell
us right now about the situation on the ground there?
SECRETARY CHRISTOPHER: Just before I came down here to talk with you
tonight, Margaret, I talked with Foreign Minister Andrei Kozyrev, and he
said that the so-called White House or the Parliament building was now
fully under control. It was being cleaned up, as he said; and I think
that situation has been calmed considerably.
It is nighttime there now in Moscow. There is apparently some sporadic
gunfire in some portions of the city. Apparently some people were able
to get out of the White House and have resumed the gunfire in other
parts of the city. But the situation, as I understand it, is that
Yeltsin is in full control.
MS. WARNER: Is there anything -- is there any way you think that this
violent event could have been avoided?
SECRETARY CHRISTOPHER: I think that President Yeltsin did everything he
could to avoid it. He withheld the use of force for as long as he
could. Even after it was necessary to use force, he delayed long enough
to give people warning so they could get out of the White House or
Parliament.
I think when there was the risk of mob rule, when the attacks were
started against the so-called city hall and the television station, when
Rutskoi incited the riot there, I don't think there was any choice but
for Yeltsin to answer back. Every organized government has to answer
when they are being challenged in this way.
MS. WARNER: Let me just ask it this way: Did the Clinton
Administration make it clear to members of Mr. Yeltsin's Government last
night, before this, that in fact that was Washington's view, that this
was entirely a legitimate response for him to take?
SECRETARY CHRISTOPHER: We were not, in effect, asked at that time. We
had confidence that he was doing what he said he would do -- that is,
that he would avoid violence as long as he could, that it would be as
peaceful and democratic as he could make it. But he reached the point
where obviously he felt he had to react. We were not asked for our
advice as to what he should do. That was a decision that he had to take
as the head of a sovereign government.
MS. WARNER: So what does he have to do now?
SECRETARY CHRISTOPHER: I think what he has to do now is, of course,
maintain control in the situation, but he has to move toward the
elections. I understand he'll be making a speech tomorrow in which he
will urge people to get on with the peaceful conduct of the elections.
He met with regional leaders today, and they pledged their support to
him.
It's quite important to realize, Margaret, that this is a very isolated
phenomenon. It's a phenomenon that existed in one section of Moscow.
The rest of the country has been relatively calm. The rest of the city
in Moscow has been calm. Indeed, we have had some delegations in Moscow
that conducted more or less business as usual today amidst all this. So
it's a narrow phenomenon, but I think what he must do is to reiterate
and confirm his desire to move forward with the election process, to
respect the rights of people to run in that election.
MS. WARNER: Now, of course, the upcoming elections in December are to
be parliamentary elections --
SECRETARY CHRISTOPHER: Correct.
MS. WARNER: -- and during the standoff President Yeltsin said he was
not willing to stand for election at that time himself. Do you think
now that he needs to go ahead and also run himself in December to sort
of re-establish his democratic legitimacy in any way?
SECRETARY CHRISTOPHER: Margaret, that would really be, I think, a
decision for them to take. He has announced Presidential elections for
next June, on June 12 I think. I think the important thing is to go
through that process, to have the parliamentary elections, and then to
have the people of Russia know they'll have a chance to choose a new
President. And I think we would be trying to micromanage it from this
distance if we tried to tell him that they ought to be simultaneous or
something else.
The important thing is that there be a firm democratic process in which
people are able to run for office, for the parliament or the presidency.
MS. WARNER: Currently, of course, a state of emergency rule still
exists in Moscow. I gather the President has also shut down a couple
opposition newspapers. How long could the United States support the
continuation of that kind of emergency rule?
SECRETARY CHRISTOPHER: I understand the emergency rule may continue for
another six to seven days. I think that would not be an unreasonable
period of time. What we have to recognize is that the forces opposed to
Yeltsin are basically the old-line communists from yesterday or
yesteryear. It was significant that the flag they raised was the hammer
and sickle, and I think it's quite understandable that Yeltsin would
need to deal firmly with that situation.
But the Foreign Minister said to me tonight -- Andrei Kozyrev -- that
President Yeltsin had reaffirmed his desire that these elections would
go forward, that people be able to participate in them, and that they be
democratic elections. And that's the important thing tonight.
MS. WARNER: And do you think the fact that he has had to use force
against his own people will change the character of this democratic
revolution that he has been trying to lead?
SECRETARY CHRISTOPHER: No, I don't, not if the elections come about and
people are able to participate in both elections fully. Many democratic
governments have had to act forcefully to put down efforts to incite
violence or to have a kind of a government by mob rule, and I think a
government must act to protect itself in those circumstances.
MS. WARNER: Mr. Secretary, I gather you'll be going to Moscow later
this month. Is that true?
SECRETARY CHRISTOPHER: I've had some plans to travel to Eastern Europe,
and those plans are going ahead. They're right on track. I'll be there
some time later this month.
MS. WARNER: And do these events change your mission in any way?
SECRETARY CHRISTOPHER: No. I think that they reinforce the purpose of
going there. I'm going there to meet with various people in Moscow as
well as in some of the other newly independent states. I think it's
very important at this time for the United States to be firmly
supportive of President Yeltsin in his democratic track.
MS. WARNER: Even though President Yeltsin won this confrontation, I
think we all saw that there is a lot of discontent, there's a lot of
anger out there among the Russian people. Do you think the U.S. and the
West need to re-think at all the pace of economic reform that we've been
urging on Russia, which is, of course, very painful for many, many
people.
SECRETARY CHRISTOPHER: The pace will be decided, I think, by President
Yeltsin and his various ministers. It has been the Parliament that has
been an obstruction to progress there. I don't think that you can judge
the mood of the people of Russia from the group who rioted in Moscow.
How many were there? Ten thousand, 20,000. But perhaps the best index
to how the Russian people felt is the fact that around the rest of the
country there were no similar demonstrations.
The information we get from public opinion polling that we've seen done
is that President Yeltsin's support has gone up since he announced that
he was abolishing the Parliament and having elections. So I think it
may be too quick to say that the people want to slow the pace of reform.
That was the view of others.
MS. WARNER: And so you wouldn't suggest that the IMF ease up conditions
further or in any way change its approach?
SECRETARY CHRISTOPHER: I would not think that the United States should
be involved in that sort of advocacy at the present time.
MS. WARNER: Thank you, Mr. Secretary, very much.
SECRETARY CHRISTOPHER: Thank you, Margaret.
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