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Friday, October 29, 1993

Subject                                                 Page

Secretary's 11/2 Address to Los Angeles World
  Affairs Council and the Town Hall of California .....1

Update on Situation in Haiti ..........................1-2
--UN Special Envoy Caputo's Assessment ................1,2
--Expected "Friends Group" Statement ..................1-2
--Governor's Island Process ...........................2-4
--Sanctions/Ship Boardings/Diversions/Cargo ...........4-5
--Dominican Republic/Sanctions Obligations ............5-6
--Effects of Sanctions ................................6
--U.S. View re: Stricter Sanctions ....................6-7,8
--Assets "Frozen" Under Sanctions .....................7-8

Opposition to Stricter Sanctions Against Libya ........9

US policy toward Kashmir ..............................9
Reported Request for Meeting by US Embassy with
  Kashmiri Leader Abdul Ghani Lone ....................9-10,11

Attack in Hotel in Cairo/Amcits Involved ..............10

Status of Diplomatic Efforts/Prospects For a
  Political Settlement ................................11-12
Status of Sarajevo/Assessment of Situation ............12-13
--Flow of Humanitarian Relief to Sarajevo .............13
Travel of Counselor Wirth in the Region ...............13-14

Travel by Ambassador Oakley to the Region .............14-16

Blix Report to IAEA re: Safeguards ....................17
--UN Meetings/Representatives North Korea & US.........17-18

DOD Assistant Secretary Freeman Travel to China  ......18

Prospects for Resumption of Washington Talks ..........19
Ambassador Ross Comments re Peace Process/Help
  to Israel to Defray Costs ...........................19-21

Release of Vest-Murphy Commission Report ..............21


                       DEPARTMENT OF STATE
                       DAILY PRESS BRIEFING

                                                      DPC #143

              FRIDAY, OCTOBER 29, 1993, 12:51 P. M.

          MR. McCURRY:  Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.  Just one 
housekeeping matter at the beginning: I'd like to let you know Secretary 
of State Christopher is going to deliver a foreign policy address at the 
Biltmore Hotel in Los Angeles on Tuesday, November 2.  It will be at 
noon Pacific Standard Time. 

          The event is jointly sponsored by the Los Angeles World 
Affairs Council and Town Hall of California, working very closely with 
the Bureau of Public Affairs Public Liaison Office.  The subject of the 
Secretary's remarks will be the foreign policy implications and the 
importance of NAFTA, and the ratification of NAFTA.

          We are going to attempt to receive the audio transmission of 
that speech here at 3:00 p.m. Eastern Standard Time.  And we do have 
some information in the Press Office on who you can contact if you want 
to direct some of your correspondents out on the West Coast to that 

          Q    Will there be a Q&A?

          MR. McCURRY:  I think there will be Q&A, yes, following his 

          Q    Could you tell us what additional measures you are 
considering to pressure the Haitian leaders?

          MR. McCURRY:  I'll give you a little update on where we are on 
Haiti, and I'll be somewhat circumspect in what I say here because of 
the following:  Very shortly we expect that the United Nations Special 
Envoy to Haiti, Dante Caputo, will have some things to say in Port-au-
Prince.  He will be providing his assessment of the situation as we look 
to the timetable in the original Governors Island Accord.  

          Following his statement, during the day, there will be in 
succession a series of supportive statements from the United States as 
well as some of the other of the so-called "friends group," including 
France, Canada, Venezuela and others.  I do believe that later on in the 
afternoon the White House will be issuing a statement, perhaps from the 
President himself.

          I'll just describe this to, in a sense, get you going.  These 
statements and the process that I think the Special Envoy will outline 
will reflect the importance that the world community attaches to the 
restoration of democracy in Haiti and the importance of the process that 
was established by the Governors Island Accords themselves -- the steps 
that would be necessary, both for the return of the duly elected 
President and the steps necessary to ensure that the restoration of 
democracy would be successful.

          Meanwhile, as you know, the sanctions that were enacted as a 
result of U.N. Security Council Resolution 873 remain in effect.  They 
do need some time to work; but at the same time we don't rule out the 
possibility of stricter sanctions in the future.  As the President said 
yesterday, we're looking at what other options are, and we will be 
assessing the situation as we look at the days ahead.

          I do believe that one thing that the Special Envoy will say is 
that it might be very important for the parties originally participating 
in the Governors Island Accord to reaffirm their commitment to that 
process.  Obviously, that's a meeting that we would expect to be very 
important to the assessment of what the current conditions in Haiti are 
and what the prospects for the return of President Aristide would be.

          Q    You would expect some sort of follow-on meeting, now, to 
Governors Island?  Is that what you're --

          MR. McCURRY:  I think that it's our understanding that's very 
likely the kind of thing that the Special Envoy would suggest, and of 
course we would welcome that.

          Q    Outside of the country?  Is that what you're saying?

          MR. McCURRY:  I'll leave it to him to talk about the venue.  I 
think he'll have some specific ideas on how that might happen.

          Q    Has he already invited people?

          MR. McCURRY:  I believe he's issuing invitations following his 

          Q    And the time frame?

          MR. McCURRY:  Within the week.

          Q    Oh, within a week?

          MR. McCURRY:  Within this coming week.

          Q    So after the Saturday deadline?

          MR. McCURRY:  Yes.  But I'll leave it --  other than to alert 
you to that, to let you know in advance that it's something we've been 
in close discussions with the Special Envoy about -- I'll leave the rest 
of the details to him and to the statement that I think you'll get from 
the White House following that.

          Q    Is it still our position -- the Administration's position 
is that the Governors Island Accord is now back open to negotiation?

          MR. McCURRY:  No.  In fact, it will be very clear that that's 
not the purpose.  Our position is that the Governors Island process has 
been blocked, and it needs to be unblocked.  I think that we will 
welcome the steps that will be announced under the auspices of the 
United Nations to return to that process and, in a sense, reinvigorate 
the process so that the Governors Island agreement itself can be 
implemented and that national reconciliation in Haiti can be achieved.

          We continue to feel that the accords themselves represent the 
best guiding framework for achieving a restoration of democracy in 

          Q    But all of this implies that you think that the military 
rulers of Haiti actually want to do this and would be serious in sort of 
continuing this process.

          MR. McCURRY:  They have made commitments and put their 
personal honor on the line, and they know that the failure to achieve 
those commitments -- those steps that were outlined in the accord itself  
-- will bring significant economic pressure to bear on their own people, 
and that the consequences for the failure to implement that process will 
be borne directly by them.

          So their attitude, as they look to the days and weeks ahead, 
is something that's very important, and we would certainly hope they 
would reassess any attitude that was contrary to a full implementation 
of the accord.

          Q    But do you really think they care about honor and the 
suffering of their own people?

          MR. McCURRY:  We are exerting pressure on them that we feel 
will be influential through the regime of sanctions that have been 
adopted by the United Nations, and, as they know and as we know, there 
are other options that could be pursued by the United States as well.

          Q    Do you have any indication that Cedras is interested at 
all in sitting down and resuming this process?

          MR. McCURRY:  There have been fairly regular conversations 
between the Special Envoy -- with our participation as well through some 
of our representatives -- and we do believe it would be useful for there 
to be a reconvening of the participants in the original Governors Island 

          Q    How many ships you have intercepted on the Haitian coast, 
and also how many ships you have already turned back for any oil or arms 
reason or suspicion?

          MR. McCURRY:  As of this morning there have been a total of 32 
ship boardings.  There were two in just the last 24 hours.  One of those 
vessels was allowed to proceed.  The second was diverted.  So that 
brings to ten the total number of diversions that we've had during our 
time of enforcing the sanctions.

          I'll tell you a little bit more about the ship that was 
diverted today, because I think it's the first time we do have some 
evidence of material covered by the resolution itself.  But I will 
suggest if you need any additional details, it would be good to go to 
the Pentagon.

          The diversion involved a Cypriot-flag vessel, the Condor, 
which was carrying 21 military vehicles equipped with .50 caliber 
machine gun mounts.  The ship's captain said the vessel was making an 
interim stop in Haiti enroute to Peru.  The manifest listed the cargo as 
humanitarian supplies and auto parts but did not list the 21 military 
vehicles.  We understand that after we diverted the vessel, the vessel 
proceeded to Panama.

          There is a Joint Task Force statement, I think, available at 
the Pentagon that's got some more information on that.

          Q    Where did the vessel originate?

          MR. McCURRY:  It's a Cypriot-flag vessel.

          Q    It could have been anywhere then?

          Q    Do you know whose weapons they were?

          MR. McCURRY:  No.  It doesn't say.  The ship's manifest 
indicated the vehicles were destined for Lima, Peru.

          Q    You said machine gun mounts, so were there machine guns 
as well?

          MR. McCURRY:  Machine gun mounts.  Twenty-one vehicles 
equipped with .50 caliber machine gun mounts.  I don't have any 
information here that indicates the machine guns themselves were on 

          By the way, the ship involved was the U.S. Navy guided missile 
frigate, the U.S.S. Robert G. Bradley.  I think the folks at the 
Pentagon will have more on the incident itself.

          Q    There have been stories about a new highway opening up 
near the Dominican Republic.  How is the embargo going to stop goods 
from flowing overland into Haiti?

          MR. McCURRY:  There are routes that could be used to 
circumvent the effect of the sanctions; but it's very important to 
remember the Dominican Republic has obligations as a member of the 
United Nations.  It has obligations pursuant to U.N. Security Council 
resolutions, and if they were not taking steps as required by member 
states to effectively enforce these sanctions, then they would face 
pressure and perhaps further action by the international community 

          So it would be very important to note that they play a role as 
an adjacent country in direct enforcement of the sanctions voted by the 
world community.

          Q    Anybody monitoring that?

          MR. McCURRY:  The sanctions are monitored.  I can't get into 
much detail about how they are monitored; but information about the 
sanctions enforcement is assessed regularly by the Secretary General of 
the United Nations, and they can act accordingly if they see any 
evidence or if any member state brings evidence of a violation of the 
sanctions enforcement to the Security Council.

          Q    So what's your assessment?  Have you seen the Dominican 
Republic stopping even one vehicle on that road?

          MR. McCURRY:  I don't have any assessment on that that I can 

          Q    So you have no comment about the continuous flow of fuel 
and other goods across the border?

          MR. McCURRY:  I've said that there are very specific steps 
that member states can take to bring violations, or alleged violations 
to the attention of the Security Council, and we are very committed to a 
full enforcement of the sanctions regime and will act in accordance with 
those provisions.

          Q    So you cannot spell out whether or not you believe that 
border is leaking like a sieve.  Has there been communications between 
the U.S. Government and the Dominican Republic about this issue?

          MR. McCURRY:  Jack, that I don't know the answer to.  I can 
check on that.  We are, through both the OAS and through the United 
Nations, in contact with other governments that are enforcing the 
sanctions regime, and I can find out whether we  have approached the 
Dominican Republic specifically on that.  But it is something we are 
discussing with other governments in the region.

          Q    Is there an effort to put any kind of monitors on the 

          MR. McCURRY:  I'm not aware of any, but I'll check.  That is a 
sanctions enforcement question, I think, that would lie with the United 
Nations.  But it's something that we would have a strong interest in.

          Q    Could you also, while you're checking, find out what the 
Dominicans did during the period when the OAS embargo was in effect from 
October 1991 until last summer?

          MR. McCURRY:  During the previous embargo, because there were 
at that time -- I think you're correct in thinking that at that time 
there were also reports of violations of the sanctions regime at that 
time.  I'll check also to see how we handled that issue last time 

          Q    Since the embargo started, do you think that Haitian 
level of trade quantity has been diminished or same?

          MR. McCURRY:  I think there have been signs, and we have 
reports, that there have been some significant effects by these 
sanctions already in the economy of Haiti and specifically in Port-au-
Prince.  As you know, the U.N. sanctions covered specifically petroleum 
products and the increase in the retail cost of gasoline and some of the 
associated effects indicate that there has been an impact to these 
sanctions already.  And of course many of you -- many of your news 
organizations have had reporters who have been assessing the effect of 
these sanctions in a personal way on the Haitian people, and those 
reports square with the information that we have.


          Q    Why have you decided at this point to not go along with 
what Aristide said at the U.N. the other day, which is an even more 
comprehensive embargo, and instead are turning to more diplomatic 

          MR. McCURRY:  We haven't ruled out -- I haven't heard anyone 
rule out a stricter and tougher regime of sanctions along the lines of 
those suggested by President Aristide, because the address also focused 
on the need for national reconciliation which, of course, we warmly 

          Q    But you didn't really answer the question.  Why did you 
choose more talking instead of more action at this point?

          MR. McCURRY:  I think that the United Nations is acting 
consistent with our goal of implementing the Governors Island Accord, 
and that it is important to go to those who have commitments that fall 
directly on them in connection with that accord and to assess their 
willingness to participate in an implementation of their previously made 

          Now, if it's not there, that certainly does not rule out the 
type of actions suggested by President Aristide and others.

          Q    Are you worried, though, that even tighter sanctions may 
backfire to the extent that they hurt the Haitian people more than they 
do the leadership?

          MR. McCURRY:  You've heard us talk here before about the 
effort to the degree we can to take what is a very blunt instrument of 
diplomacy -- economic sanctions -- and try to target them on individuals 
that we hold responsible for the blocking of the Governors Island 

          As you extend the effect of that blockade wider, you make the 
instrument even more blunt, and we have tried, to the degree we can, to 
take these sanctions and make them more effective by making them an 
instrument of pressure on those who we hold responsible.

          So, that is a consequence of a stricter regime of sanctions 
that the effect begins to move to the Haitian people themselves who have 
already paid an enormous price for the obstinacy of the military leaders 
in Haiti.

          Q    Has there ever been a response to the often repeated 
question of the frozen assets -- how much were frozen the first time 
around, how much is frozen now?

          MR. McCURRY:  There was something on that, Jack.  I don't have 
it here, but I'll see if we can get some more.  I had seen --

          Q    What kind of material was it?

          MR. McCURRY:  I don't know whether it was a posted answer.  I 
think when they covered -- at the time that we imposed the unilateral 
United States sanctions in freezing the accounts, we indicated that -- I 
think we had some numbers on how many people were effected and even some 
information on who they were.

          I will say, by the way, on the previous question, in addition, 
President Aristide obviously called for a total blockade, but there are 
other steps that might also increase the pressure -- working with other 
nations to follow with similar measures to those that have been 
suggested by the United States unilaterally; freezing bank accounts, 
trying to expand the number of people participating in that type of  
sanctions effort, we feel might be another way to bring additional 
pressure to bear beyond those sanctions that have already been adopted.

          Q    But the question is:  Would you have new statistics on 
the assets that have most recently been frozen, who -- how much are we 
talking about?

          MR. McCURRY:  I'll see.  I don't know if we have statistics or 
whether we've got some type of summary, but I'll see if we can get that.

          Q    Narrative description, whatever.

          MR. McCURRY:  Yes.  Some type of narrative description.

          Q    Going to sanctions somewhere else, do you have anything 
new on the --

          MR. McCURRY:  Hold on for a second.  Let's stay on this.

          Q    It sounds like you're saying that if the Haitian generals 
walk away from Governors Island, you will try to internationalize the 
sanctions that the United States has imposed.  Is that a fair statement?

          MR. McCURRY:  We have already had discussions on how you could 
take those steps that we have taken unilaterally and make them more 
effective by getting others to join us.  Some of those types of 
conversations have already occurred.

          Q    You say you've had discussions.  Is that a goal?

          MR. McCURRY:  If we see a need for stricter sanctions as a 
result of continuing reluctance or failure to meet the commitments in 
the Governors Island Accord, we would be prepared to seek stricter 
sanctions and to consider ways to make those unilateral measures that 
we've already announced even more effective by internationalizing them 
in effect.

          Any more on Haiti before we move on?

          Q    Unless you have something new on the boat people.

          MR. McCURRY:  No, I really don't.  Not anything new.  Our 
Embassy has been monitoring the case of four Haitians that were 
repatriated who have been charged for alien smuggling, or we understand 
will be charged for alien smuggling.  But I don't think there has been 
any --

          Q    No other boats?

          MR. McCURRY:  No, no other interdictions.  The last 
interdiction was when the Coast Guard picked up 20 Haitians on the 26th.  
It would have been Tuesday.  They were repatriated to Port-au-Prince 
without incident.  And that's it.  There have been no interdictions 
since then.

          Q    Anything on contacts with Russia with regard to their 
opposition to stricter sanctions against Libya?

          MR. McCURRY:  Nothing that's as recent as the Secretary's 
discussions with Foreign Minister Kozyrev on that point when we were in 
Moscow late last week.  It was a subject that they did address.  They 
clearly have got some more work to do, although I think the Secretary 
and the Foreign Minister both reported that there had been some progress 
made on that issue as they attempt to deal with what the effect would be 
of broadening the sanctions on Libya to include certain financial assets 
held by Libya outside Libya.

          They are continuing that discussion.  There will, no doubt, be 
additional diplomatic talks even in the coming week on that subject.

          Q    Mike, in the background briefing yesterday, [an official] 
said that the U.S. does not recognize the accession of Kashmir to India.  
Now, I don't want to put you on the spot, but could you confirm that 
that is official U.S. position?

          MR. McCURRY:  I can't confirm a comment made by an individual 
person in a briefing that occurred on background.  What I can tell you a 
little bit more about is our policy.

          There's nothing that's been said by any senior administration 
official in recent days that represents a change in our policy towards 
Kashmir, nor any change in our view of India's territorial integrity.  
As we have noted consistently since 1947, the United States believes the 
entire geographic area of the former princely state of Jammu and Kashmir 
is disputed territory.

          The United States believes the best way to resolve the dispute 
over Kashmir is through direct discussions between the Governments of 
India and Pakistan as envisioned in the Simla Agreement, taking into 
account the wishes of the Kashmiri people.

          We have a productive and wide-ranging relationship with India, 
and we're committed to constructive and cooperative dialogue on all 
matters of mutual concern to our countries.

          Q    Follow-up, also on Kashmir.  I believe the U.S. Embassy 
in New Delhi asked to meet Mr. Abdul Ghani Lone, the Kashmiri leader who 
was arrested leading a rally onto the Mosque in Srinagar, and I believe 
an official did go and meet him.

          Now, could you tell me the basis of this request to meet him?  
I mean, it's not as if he's a U.S. citizen for whom you have consular 

          MR. McCURRY:  I was not aware of that.  What I will do is see 
if we can check with the post and get some information about that 
contact.  I can't confirm that that's occurred.  I hadn't heard about 
that, but I'll find out more on that.

          Q    And also what the official found about his state of 

          MR. McCURRY:  I'll see what we can find out about that 
contact, if it did in fact occur, yes.

          Q    Mike, could you tell us something about terrorism in 
Egypt and Algeria?

          MR. McCURRY:  I can't.  I know that we have worked -- because 
there were some U.S. citizens involved in the attack on the hotel in 
Cairo the other day -- we have been working on that matter urgently.  I 
don't know that there has been any follow-up contact and, of course, we 
were out of the country at the time of President Clinton's meeting with 
President Mubarak.

          I don't know whether in the course of describing that meeting 
they discussed at all terrorism.  I recall that President Mubarak 
addressed that subject during the question-and-answer period he had with 
many of you following his meeting with President Clinton.  So I don't 
have anything to add beyond that, other than to say that because of the 
attack in Cairo, we have been working on the arrangements and trying to 
help the families of those Americans who were involved in that incident.

          Q    Did you ask to see or to debrief the man charged with the 

          MR. McCURRY:  The official from the interior ministry that was 
involved, do you mean?

          Q    No.  I mean the man charged with the --

          MR. McCURRY:  Oh, with the crime itself.

          Q    With the crime itself.

          MR. McCURRY:  Not to my knowledge.  I'll check and see if we 
did.  I will post that, but I don't believe that we did ask to see him.

          Q    I'd like to follow up on Dr. Lone.  When he was here a 
couple of months ago, he did meet with several State Department 
officials, and one of the things they discussed was his safety when he 
returned to India after he had heart surgery  here, and he was told that 
the American Embassy in Delhi would go to special lengths to make sure 
that he was not unjustly arrested.

          I'm wondering whether we have gone ahead and followed through 
with that promise and sort of how it squares with what's happening to 
him now?

          MR. McCURRY:  Yes.  I'll include that question within the 
response to the earlier taken question.

          Q    Can I ask you a question on Bosnia?

          MR. McCURRY:  Sure.

          Q    There's been a lot of activity on the ground the last 
couple of weeks.  Are there any U.S. efforts under way to try and get 
diplomatic movement going on that again?  For example, some Congressmen 
have been talking about a Balkan conference like the Middle East peace 
process.  Is there any support for that here?

          MR. McCURRY:  I think on two fronts:  One on the diplomatic 
track, we have continued to have contact with our NATO allies, sharing 
information with them about our understanding of the situation on the 
ground.  We have been doing that on a regular basis ever since the 
decisions in August concerning air strikes.

          Secondly, on the prospects for a political settlement, I'd say 
that we have remained in touch with the parties directly.  We have 
discussed with them or tried to assess the prospects for some type of 
conference or some type of additional dialogue.  The United States 
continues to feel that the parties themselves must conclude as rapidly 
as possible a political settlement that will bring an end to the 
fighting and restore the conditions necessary for what will be needed 
this winter -- a very significant humanitarian relief to keep people 
alive through a harsh winter.

          Q    Mike, there are reports out of Sarajevo today that Serb 
gunners are continuing to pound the city, which suggests to me that it's 
still besieged, and the United States had a pretty strong position about 
how Sarajevo should not be allowed to be besieged, and how there was 
going to be tough measures -- bombing, in other words -- if it 
continues.  So it's continuing.

          MR. McCURRY:  What's the question?

          Q    Well, the question is in the face of this, what are you 

          MR. McCURRY:  I think exactly what I said before.  You know 
the process that's required under the August 2 and August 9 communiques 
issues by NATO, and that's one of the reasons of  many that we continue 
to share our assessment of what we see as the situation on the ground 
with our NATO allies.          Q    But the Secretary did make a speech 
saying that he was going to share his assessment if this happened.  He 
said something rather direct.  He said that there would be that final 
meeting of the North Atlantic Council to authorize action.

          Haven't they crossed the threshold?  Haven't they crossed the 
trip wire that the State Department so specifically laid down?

          MR. McCURRY:  That would be a question that the North Atlantic 
Council would have to address, as you know, from the August 2 and August 
9 NATO Communiques.

          Q    But somebody has to get the Council to meet.  Is the 
United States calling for a meeting of the Council?

          MR. McCURRY:  Not that I'm aware of; but, as I say, we are 
sharing information with our NATO allies, which is exactly what would 
have to happen as the North Atlantic Council reviewed the situation on 
the ground in Sarajevo and elsewhere.

          Q    Could it be -- of course, I never understood what you 
mean by "sharing" -- it's as if they don't have information of their 
own.  They're on the ground and you aren't.  But unless you mean you're 
sharing information with a point, that you have some interpretation of 
the information and you're trying to persuade them to your point of 
view.  Is it that kind of sharing of information?  Because they're 
there.  They don't need to know that Serbs kill helpless Muslim 
civilians.  This has sort of been an open fact for some time.  You don't 
have to inform them of that.

          MR. McCURRY:  If you talk to people in UNPROFOR, they'd say 
that there's the quality of information and intelligence they have 
available through NATO and through the United States, specifically, 
helps a great deal in assessing the situation on the ground there, and 
that's the type of information that I'm referring to.

          Q    When you talk about -- talking about a conference, can 
you be a little more specific?  Do you mean something including the 
parties, or do you mean -- Madrid, of course, brought the parties 

          MR. McCURRY:  I'm referring to the suggestions that have come 
from a variety of places, that there be some type of London II 
conference.  That's what I meant by that.

          Q    Can you describe the situation in Sarajevo for us?  Are 
artillery shells falling on the city on a regular basis?  Are supplies 
coming in without impedence?

          MR. McCURRY:  I've got some.  I thought I did have a situation 
report on Sarajevo.  I can tell you the one yesterday referred to the 
shelling that had occurred. It abated somewhat.  It appeared to be 
directed at some of the forward positions of Bosnian Government forces 
that have now moved in to replace some of the -- I don't know exactly 
how you'd describe them -- but some of the units that were associated 
with the two former Bosnian Government military officers who were 
arrested during the crackdown over the weekend -- so the shelling 
appeared to be directed at some of those positions because there was a 
replacement of people along the perimeter line around Sarajevo.  That, 
as I said, had abated somewhat, although there was still reports of 
shelling continuing I think even through the evening.

          Q    How about food and medicine -- is that flowing unimpeded 
to the city?

          MR. McCURRY:  The humanitarian relief has been flowing.  It's 
been interrupted mostly by what is described as criminal activity in and 
around various parts of Bosnia; that the interruption of supplies has 
not been so much due to any action by military units associated with 
either the Croatians or the Serbs or the Muslims, but more so with 
isolated criminal activity that made the safety and security of the U.N. 
relief personnel a real problem.

          Q    Would it be possible to give us an update at some point 
on the warehouse situation --

          MR. McCURRY:  Where they are on supplies?

          Q    -- in terms of looking to the winter, how far down the 
warehouse supply situation is?  Maybe Monday you can --

          MR. McCURRY:  We've gotten updates on that from time to time.  
I had one fairly recently, but I'll see if I can get one for early next 
week.  We might even see if we can do just a general work up on where 
the winterization program is right now and what needs to be done.

          I should say, by the way, that Counselor Tim Wirth from the 
Department is actually in the region taking a first-hand look at 
questions exactly like that now.  In fact, he's there through today and 
will be returning over the weekend.

          One of the things he is looking at specifically is the status 
of U.N. relief operations, the effect of our continuing airdrops, and 
what the prospects for the winter look like.

          Q    Is he in Sarajevo?

          MR. McCURRY:  No.  He had been in Croatia.  He was intended to 
travel to Split today but apparently bad weather detoured that and 
instead he was going to eastern Slavonia to a refugee camp near Osijek.

          Q    Will he go to Sarajevo?

          MR. McCURRY:  I don't believe he has plans to go to Sarajevo.

          Q    If you're going to lay on a briefing, could you also try 
to have whoever it is that comes down to talk to us describe how 
significantly changed the needs of the population are over the course of 
-- from last winter to this winter and their fragility, etc.?

          MR. McCURRY:  I can tell you from things that I've seen and 
read, that's a source of very real concern because compared to a year 
ago, the population has severely -- their health has been severely 
reduced because of malnutrition and the effects of disease.  So the 
danger of the winter taking a higher toll is something that concerns the 
people who have been working on the problem.

          Q    Mike, given the fact that you acknowledge that there are 
still reports of continued shelling, do you consider Sarajevo to be 
under siege?

          MR. McCURRY:  I described, I think a little bit earlier, what 
I know about the shelling and the situation report we had.

          Q    I understand that.  Would you answer that specific 
question, though?  That's a specific term.  Do you consider Sarajevo to 
be under siege?

          MR. McCURRY:  The phrase that I think is relevant is, is it 
being strangled?  That would be an assessment that I indicated earlier 
would be rendered by the North Atlantic Council.

          Q    In terms of the information you're sharing with the 
Council, is it the assessment from here that there has been, since this 
deadline -- the 15th deadline -- that the Serbs had given the Bosnians 
to sign a peace agreement, that there has been a steady escalation or 
deliberate escalation in the shelling of the area?

          MR. McCURRY:  I wouldn't describe it that way.  I think there 
have been sporadic episodes of shelling and firing.  It has not all been 
directed by one party against another party.  I think, as you know, 
there has been considerable fighting between the Croats and the Muslims 
in other parts of central Bosnia.  It's not clearly an escalation 
occurring on one particular front of this complicated war situation.

          Q    Could I ask you about Somalia and the trip that 
Ambassador Oakley is making or is about to make?

          MR. McCURRY:  I think about to make.  He is leaving later 
today, I understand.  He is going to leave late today.  He'll be over in 
the region about a week.  His intent is to meet with regional leaders, 
Somali political leaders, U.N. officials, and U.S. diplomats.  He'll be 
helping re-energize the political reconciliation process and 
consolidating the cease-fire that has been holding with some 
interruptions.  He has no plans to meet with General Aideed.

          Q    Does he rule it out?

          MR. McCURRY:  He will assess the situation when he gets over 
there.  I hesitate to speak for Ambassador Oakley who knows how to 
handle himself precisely in these situations.  But it's not within his 
portfolio as he goes over there to conduct the meeting, although he will 
have contact with members of his sub-clan.

          Q    Tell us more about his itinerary?

          Q    Before you do that, is there any prohibition on him 
meeting with Aideed?  When you say he has no plans, is it appropriate?  
He may think the situation is at that point.

          MR. McCURRY:  I'm not aware of anything that says you cannot 
under any circumstances meet with General Aideed.  I just have described 
his portfolio as being working with others.  Of course, he has no plans, 
as he goes over there, to meet with Aideed.

          His itinerary, I don't have that.  I think that he does plan 
some additional trips in the region, in addition to a stop in Mogadishu.  
That would be consistent with our desire all along to stimulate a 
regional dialogue that would address how to structure attempts to bring 
about a national reconciliation, but I don't have his specific stops.

          Q    Can you say where he's going to land tomorrow morning?

          MR. McCURRY:  He doesn't say where he's going to land tomorrow 

          Q    Could you take that?  Is he landing in Addis?

          MR. McCURRY:  I'm pretty sure that's a question we can 
probably get an answer.  But there might be some reasons related to 
security that would prevent us from posting an answer.

          Q    Does he have specific goals other than the sort of 
general ones of re-energizing and consolidating cease-fires?  He is 
trying to set up a meeting?  Is he trying to finally get this tribunal, 
or whatever you care to call it, in some sort of shape so that it can 
begin work?

          MR. McCURRY:  I'd say he's working on several things.  One, 
they have a situation now in which you've got to make sure that the 
cease-fire itself holds, so he'll be discussing the importance of that.

          Two, looking at the relief supply routes and the roads and 
whether they are open.  That is, as you know, one of the aspects of the 
U.S. mission currently deployed in Somalia.

          Three, he'll be looking to the regional grouping of African 
states that are attempting to bring about a political dialogue.  He'll 
be in contact with the governments of Eritrea, Ethiopia, and presumably 
others, within the Organization of African Unity that have been working 
on this problem that we've been in contact with on a fairly regular 

          And, lastly, he will be looking specifically at the question 
of an independent commission that can formed to bring together facts 
necessary to hold those accountable for the death of Pakistani 
peacekeepers on June 5, and those responsible for additional violence 
since then.

          Q    How is he doing on even the first phase of setting up an 
independent mission?

          MR. McCURRY:  They have got the idea -- in addition to that, 
there are other things, during his last trip, put in place that we're 
going to resume -- meetings of representatives of the sub-clan that had 
been discontinued last spring.  There are some steps like that that he 
had encouraged the parties to reactivate during his last trip.  I think 
he's going to check and see what the status of some of those things are.

          He feels there's been considerable progress.  There's been 
progress.  There needs to be more progress in putting together both the 
effort by the regional countries to form this commission and then how 
you formally structure exactly what the scope and the authority of the 
commission itself will be.  There's, clearly, additional work that needs 
to be done.

          Q    Mike, when did the UN.-U.S. forces stop seizing heavy 

          MR. McCURRY:  I don't know the answer to that.  They're not 
doing search and seizure operations in various neighborhoods in 
Mogadishu, as you know, consistent with the orders that they have been 

          Q    (Inaudible) supply of heavy weapons outside of Mogadishu?

          MR. McCURRY:  There are weapons outside Mogadishu; that's 

          Q    What is the recent development of North Korean nuclear 
matters?  Could you check if Hans Blix met Ambassador Albright 
yesterday, and what kind of talk they had?

          MR. McCURRY:  I believe that Mr. Blix will be making a report 
to the IAEA on Monday, giving a review of the current situation in North 
Korea as it reflects on the continuity of full-scope safeguards.  I 
think because of that we will probably have less to say today than we 
might following his report.

          I would say that there was a report earlier today that some of 
you are aware of that North Korea had allegedly refused to allow any or 
some types of IAEA inspections.  We're not aware that that is true, but 
we are and remain deeply concerned that North Korea has not yet accepted 
the type of inspections that would be necessary to maintain the 
continuity of the safeguards at the declared nuclear facilities that 
have been at issue.  That remains to be the subject that the IAEA will 
have to address.  We are awaiting their determination of what the status 
of continuity and safeguards is.  That's the report that I think we 
anticipate getting on Monday.

          Q    Is there a problem of the length of the inspection?

          MR. McCURRY:  The length?

          Q    Yeah.  Is there a problem of how long the inspectors 
could be out on the premises?

          MR. McCURRY:  I'm not certain what -- it's not the length.  
It's just getting access to the facility and getting access to certain 
equipment at the declared facilities that they've been looking at.  
Beyond that, there may be technical things as well that they're 
concerned about.

          I'm not fully familiar with all of the complaints that North 
Korea raises against those inspections, but I think you've seen some of 
their public comments in the past on how they view the IAEA in that 
their objections are consistent with what they've said in the past.

          Q    In the meantime, are U.S. officials continuing to meet in 
New York with the North Koreans?

          MR. McCURRY:  There have been fairly recent -- I don't know 
precisely when in recent days, but there have been meetings at the 
United Nations between representatives of North Korea and the United 
States of what I would describe as sort of a mid-level or technical 
level.  Those are not to be confused with a third round of high-level 
talks which have not been scheduled because there's insufficient 
progress to warrant the scheduling of those types of talks.

          Q    And these mid-level talks have produced no resolution at 

          MR. McCURRY:  No, they have not produced a resolution.

          Q    What is your understanding of the deadline that the North 
Korean IAEA inspection facilities -- is there anymore planning out of 
the film and the battery?

          MR. McCURRY:  The inspections are necessary very, very soon to 
assure the continuity of the safeguards.  I think that's what the 
director of the IAEA will address on Monday.

          But there's a point at which, without those inspections, you 
cannot say that the continuity of the safeguards has been guaranteed.  I 
don't know technically when that time passes, but it's clear that it's 
sooner rather than later.

          Q    Why has the United States resumed a high-level defense 
dialogue with China?  Is it because China has had such a splendid human 
rights record since Tiananmen Square?

          MR. McCURRY:  No.  There are, in fact, issues about military-
to-military cooperation that are consistent with our own human rights 
interests that we think can be furthered in those types of discussions.

          I believe the Pentagon may have put out a schedule for -- I 
believe it's Assistant Secretary Freeman who is travelling to China.  
But that was among the high-level exchanges that had been discussed and 
agreed to at the time that Secretary Christopher met with Foreign 
Minister Qian in New York at the time of the UNGA meeting.

          Q    So this is not a resumption of regular, high-level 
defense contacts with China?

          MR. McCURRY:  There have been over the years military-to-
military meetings.  Our feeling is that there are issues within the 
contexts of those meetings that are important and that can be addressed 
with the resumption of that type of exchange.  That was among those, in 
addition to the human rights exchanges, the visit of Secretary Bentsen 
-- I think there was one other -- in addition to the visit of Assistant 
Secretary Freeman that was discussed by the Secretary with the Chinese 
Foreign Minister recently and agreed to as things that were necessary to 
work on what are admittedly problems in the bilateral relationship.

          I would not indicate that this is anything other than a way to 
continue to try to make progress on some of those issues that remain 
sore spots in the bilateral relationship.

          Q    Mike, on Georgia:  There's been a reversal there with the 
troops going on the offensive.  Shervadnadze seems to be turning things 

          Has the United States provided any kind of assistance to Mr. 
Shervadnadze's government?

          MR. McCURRY:  I'm not aware that we've provided any assistance 
to him.  It's something that we've monitored very closely, that we've 
said things about publicly, that we've raised in diplomatic 
conversations.  But I think you're probably asking about any type of 
military assistance, and I'm not aware that we've provided any type of 
military assistance.

          Q    Even advice on how to and --

          MR. McCURRY:  Not that I'm aware of.  I would freely admit 
that I'd need to check a lot more widely within the United States 
Government before ruling out any and all types of assistance.  I'm just 
not aware of any.

          Q    Mike, while you were travelling, the President and 
President Mubarak held a news conference in which President Clinton 
called for an early resumption of the Washington talks.  Is there any 
progress on that front?

          MR. McCURRY:  I will defer to Ambassador Dennis Ross who, I 
understand, may have spoken earlier today.  I looked at his remarks very 
briefly and I thought he gave a pretty good snapshot of where we stand 
right now in the dialogue and where we think things are.

          We continue to think that a comprehensive peace in the region 
is very, very important and that we continue to believe that the 
discussions both under the auspices here in Washington that we sponsor 
with the Russians and then those discussions that could be held as a 
result of our intermediary role are very, very important, and we're 
willing to continue to play that role.  But the pacing of those types of 
discussions is clearly something that's within the province of the 
parties to address.

          Q    One of the things that Ambassador Ross said today was 
that the United States would help Israel defray the cost of the peace 
agreement with the Palestinians.  He didn't really go into any detail on 
that.  I just wonder if you could say something about that?  Is he 
talking about new money?  How are you going to get it through Congress?

          MR. McCURRY:  He's talking about ways in which you can help 
Israel defray some of the costs that are associated with taking on the 
commitments made in the PLO-Israeli joint Declaration of Principles.  
There are costs to Israel associated with those agreements.  We have had 
discussions both with members of the United States Congress and then 
obviously discussions with Israel about how you could help in carrying 
some of the burden of those costs.

          I don't know that there's been any definitive mechanism worked 
out, but it is something that we have had discussions with Congress 

          Q    Can you be specific?  Are you looking at an extra 
appropriation bill, or --

          MR. McCURRY:  No, no, no.  They're not considering that -- 
it's not my understanding they're considering any type of supplemental 
request.  They're not at that point in the cycle, in any event.  But 
they have talked about other types of mechanisms that would be possible.

          Q    More money guarantees?

          MR. McCURRY:  No.  I'll just leave it that they've explored 
several different ideas on how they can bring that assistance about.

          Q    You wouldn't use donor's money?  That was set exclusively 
for the PLO?  The billions that you raised at the donor's conference -- 
Israel is not part of that, is it?

          MR. McCURRY:  The donor's conference here were costs 
associated with implementing the agreement in the West Bank and --

          Q    On the Palestinian side?

          MR. McCURRY:  On the Palestinian track, although there are 
ways in which Israel, as you know, is among those who committed funds at 
that donor's conference.

          Q    What sort of costs are you talking about, Mike, as far as 
implementing peace?

          MR. McCURRY:  I don't have an exact figure.

          Q    What are the items that will be costly?  Not what will 
they cost.

          MR. McCURRY:  The cost to them?

          Q    What kind of activities are you talking about?

          MR. McCURRY:  Redeployments -- I don't have the whole list.  
I've seen the list before.  But there are things like the redeployment 
of security forces away from certain areas within the West Bank and 
around Jericho.  There is the transfer of certain civilian functions and 
transferring personnel.  If you're interested in that, I can see if I 
can get a little further listing of that.  But there are some costs that 
they take on as a result of the agreements that they've made.

          Q    Michael, there is an Israeli report to the effect that 
this Administration is trying to omit the conditionality and the 
agreement related to the loan guarantees in order to pay back to Israel 
what was discounted for the 1994 $10 billion loan guarantee.  Do you 
have any comment on that?

          MR. McCURRY:  No, nothing other than the answer I gave to 
Carol earlier that we have been exploring with our Congress a variety of 
ways in which we can help the Israelis absorb some of the costs 
associated with the peace agreement.

          Q    This doesn't have anything to do with the peace 
agreement.  I think the --

          MR. McCURRY:  Well, it doesn't.  What you're saying is, is 
there a way you could use that off-set that's within the parameters of 
the loan guarantees?  Is that perhaps one of the ways that you might be 
able to provide some assistance?  Again, I say that's something that we 
have been discussing with Congress.

          Q    So their agreement is going to be modified?

          MR. McCURRY:  I can't say that with any certainty.

          Q    Mike, this might be a -- in fact, this is a housekeeping 
thing.  But do you have any idea of when and how the declassified 
documents from the Vest-Murphy Commission report on El Salvador are 
going to be made public?

          MR. McCURRY:  I know that the vast bulk and majority of those 
documents are ready for release.  I believe the last I had checked on it 
there were one or two things that were preventing an immediate release.  
I'll be happy to check again and see when they will be forthcoming.

          Q    When and where would be very nice information to have, 
preferably an hour or two, or more, before it went out.

          MR. McCURRY:  My understanding is that we typically do a great 
deal of that here through the Press Office here.  This involves an 
interagency effort, as you know, because our interest is having a full 
release of documents from all the different parts of government that 
were involved in those issues related to El Salvador.

          Q    You don't see it today, then?

          MR. McCURRY:  I hope it's not today because I'm not aware of 
it if it is today.

          Q    So do we all.

          Q    Thank you.

          MR. McCURRY:  Thank you.

          (Press briefing concluded at 1:43 p.m.)


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