US Department of State Daily Briefing #176: Thursday, 12/3/92

Boucher Source: State Department Spokesman Richard Boucher Description: Washington, DC Date: Dec, 3 199212/3/92 Category: Briefings Region: Subsaharan Africa, E/C Europe, Central America, North America Country: Bosnia-Herzegovina, Serbia-Montenegro, Somalia, Nicaragua, Mexico, Zaire Subject: Regional/Civil Unrest, Military Affairs, Development/Relief Aid, United Nations, Trade/Economics, Democratization, Human Rights, Immigration l2:08 P.M. (ON THE RECORD UNLESS OTHERWISE NOTED) MR. BOUCHER: All right. Let's declare ourselves here, and I'd like to welcome you all. I really don't have any statements off the top, so why don't we go to questions. I can imagine what the first one might be, but go ahead.

[Somalia: Discussion on Draft UN Resolution for Military Protection of Humanitarian Relief]

Q Well, Richard, to the extent you can, could you tell us -- mostly bearing in mind the meeting yesterday in New York with Wisner and other top State Department officials and Defense officials with Boutros-Ghali -- what can you tell us about how this force will be arranged? For instance, will an American commander be in charge of Americans? Will there be a limit to the mission's duration? In all, you know, some of the things that have been mostly pressed by Congress. MR. BOUCHER: No, I know, those are important questions, and those are questions that we're discussing with the United Nations. Under Secretary Wisner went to New York yesterday with an inter-agency team to discuss the situation in Somalia with U.N. Secretary General Boutros-Ghali. They discussed many of these specific issues of coordination, of command, finances, et cetera, which relate to the deployment of forces to Somalia under the draft U.N. resolution. I really can't get into further specifics at this time. After all, what we're dealing with is only a draft. As we've said previously, there have been some changes, and there may be others. As the resolution stands, we believe that we would have appropriate command and control over any U.S. forces that would be operating in Somalia. And without going into details, I think I can say the present text does cover relations with U.N. forces already there and conditions for a transition to regular U.N. peacekeeping forces. The state of play in New York is that we've had continuing discussions yesterday concerning the proposed resolution with the Secretary General and with members of the Security Council. Discussions will continue today. And depending on the outcome of these consultations, a vote on a resolution could come as early as this evening or possibly tomorrow. Q Richard, you mentioned finances. Is it correct to assume that since it is to be a United Nations force that the United Nations membership would bear the bulk of the cost? MR. BOUCHER: Jim, the mention of finances was among one of the issues that I said I would not be able to discuss further; and I'm not able to discuss it further at this point. I wouldn't make any particular assumption at this point. Q Do you have anything to tell us about other possible participants in this force? MR. BOUCHER: Similar to what we said yesterday, I think I've seen a press report that the French have made some sort of announcement. Several countries have indicated an interest in participating or in supporting the proposed operation. As we said yesterday, we believe that other governments will make decisions concerning provision of forces following passage of the resolution. I really can't be more specific at this time except to say what we said yesterday. We expect this to be a multinational operation under U.N. auspices. Q Richard, in that regard, given the fact that there aren't any specific commitments by other specific countries -- MR. BOUCHER: As I said, the French may have said something in public already. Q Yes. How will this affect the timing of the operation? Will the United States wait until it has consulted with all of the possible participants to establish a command structure and then go in, or would we be prepared to go in alone and pick these people up along the way, as it were? MR. BOUCHER: I don't know the answer to that, Barrie. That really gets into the question of the timing of our deployments, and I have to leave that sort of thing to the Pentagon. I'm not sure the two scenarios that you described are really an either/or proposition. Obviously, as countries consider this resolution and what it entails, they've certainly themselves have been looking at the questions of what contributions they might make, and clearly that's something that we, in our discussions with them, are discussing. So, at this point, you know, I can tell you that several countries have indicated interest in either participating or somehow supporting the proposed operation. I can't give you a complete list of who's going to be there, or even a partial list at this point. Governments may -- you know, you may find a series of announcements made rather rapidly. I don't know specifically that will happen, but certainly governments have been thinking about this and we're all aware of the urgency of the situation. We're all aware of the tragedy that's going on in Somalia, and I assume that we would want to get out there and get to work as soon as we can. Q Richard, can I ask you something about mission -- which may sound like hair-splitting, but I think it's a significant difference between two approaches. The American mission: Would the American mission, that's been described in some reports to pry apart these feuding factions so that relief can be delivered, that's A. B would be to deliver the relief and, if necessary, use force to get the relief there. Am I clear? In other words, did I state the alternatives that I understand -- MR. BOUCHER: I don't think you stated two alternatives, Barry. Q I don't -- I think they are. MR. BOUCHER: The mission, as we've described it, is to ensure a secure environment for the delivery of humanitarian relief -- Q But you can do that -- MR. BOUCHER: -- to make sure that this deteriorating security situation doesn't keep starving people from getting the food that they need. Now, that mission will be further defined in the U.N. resolution, and perhaps in other discussions with the United Nations, but I don't -- Q You don't see the distinction? MR. BOUCHER: That's the mission. I don't see the distinction that you're drawing. Q Well, it sounds like you're coming down on Option A. There's a distinction in my head. Well, the point is that the Americans' Option A would be -- could go in, disarm the belligerents, and create an environment that will make it possible for relief to get safely through. That's Option A. I think that's what you're saying. Another approach is Americans are going in to make sure the food gets through and if those factions, those warlords get in the way, the Americans will be prepared to deal with them. But they will go in with a food delivery assignment and with the option of using force to make sure it's delivered. You know, do you mop -- do you clear out the area first, or do you try to deliver and fire if fired upon? That's what I'm saying. MR. BOUCHER: Barry, I leave those kind of decisions to generals and people that have to undertake the operation. Q That's a political decision; it's not just a -- MR. BOUCHER: Hold on. Let me -- the goal is to make sure that starving people get food. I don't think I can be any clearer than that. You'll see the description -- the proposals in the Secretary General's letter. The people who carry out the operation, once the U.N. Security Council passes a resolution, tells it -- instructs member states or whoever to do what has to be done, will decide how to go about that. I don't think it's either/or. It's a question of making sure that people get the food they need. You know what we're involved in food deliveries already with our military flights, with the civilian flights. There are a great many other people involved in food deliveries and the goal is to ensure that food gets to people who need it. Q Richard, what kind of contacts, if any, do you have with the different factions on the ground? MR. BOUCHER: At this point I think those have largely been in the hands of the United Nations. I have only sort of the first report from our delegation that's out in Addis, and I don't know that they've had any specific contact there. I'm told that there is broad representation of Somali factions and clans out there. In fact, the Somali representatives say they were delighted to have an opportunity to meet in a neutral venue. We've talked to some of them; I'm not sure exactly which ones. The Somalis, in fact, decided to remain in Addis after the December 4th close of the conference for informal discussions among themselves. The first session was today. It's a two-day conference -- December 3 and 4. Speakers at the opening session included the Secretary General of the Organization of African Unity, the Ethiopian President, the United Nations Undersecretary for Humanitarian Affairs, Jan Eliasson, and Ambassador Oakley. I think I said yesterday that the conference represents a major opportunity for Somali leaders to take the initiative in ending the civil strife and suffering in their country. They can take the lead in determining the most critical relief and rehabilitation needs in Somalia and we're hopeful that they will seize this opportunity and begin to work with the U.N. to bring relief, rehabilitation and national reconciliation to Somalia. Q Is there anyone on the ground now in Somalia trying to probe the ground -- see exactly what the security or the political situation will be? MR. BOUCHER: Well, you've seen public statements. The U.N. Secretary General has his representative, Ambassador Kittani, who has been out there, who has been reporting back. Q But no one from the U.S.? No American representative, or no American team trying to -- MR. BOUCHER: On the ground in Mogadishu? We've had our disaster assistance people in and out helping with food deliveries. They're very aware of the security situation in the locations where we've been flying in. We've been in touch with other international observers and, certainly we have what the U.N. tells us about the security situation out there. Q But, Richard, is there sufficient food? I mean once the corridors are cleared, is that a problem? MR. BOUCHER: I don't know the exact amounts of the stockpiles. But I think the basic answer is, yes, and I'm sure if there's any deficiency, that that's something that's being looked at and would be made up. The problems that we've described in Somalia have been getting food into the ports, in some cases, but from the ports to the people who need it. The problems have been the looting of trucks on their way from from the ports and the warehouses to the feeding centers. Q Richard, is there any consideration being given to the hundreds of thousands of refugees who might come flooding back in when U.S. troops go into Somalia? MR. BOUCHER: I don't know the exact number of refugees at this point, but I assume that's being looked at. I don't have an answer for you, but you might check with the United Nations on that one. Q Richard, can you think of any precedent for this in which the United States has sent in a major force to protect a humanitarian operation? MR. BOUCHER: I think I can think of precedents where we are protecting humanitarian operations in other places in the world. I can think of precedents where the military itself undertook humanitarian operations like in Bangladesh after the cyclone. You know, it depends, since some aspects of any situation are similar to other places and some aspects are different. I think I've tried to make that point before. Q Well, since it is at least in degree different, is there going to be any formal consultation with Congress? MR. BOUCHER: There will, of course, be consultation with the Congress. I guess I should emphasize that at this point the U.N. resolution hasn't passed and the President has not made any final decisions. But any deployment of U.S. troops will be done in accordance with the prevailing U.S. statutes. Q You used the future tense. There hasn't been consultation already? MR. BOUCHER: There may have been some conversations. I'm not aware of sort of formal consultations because formal decisions have not been made. Q Does this involve the War Powers Act at all? MR. BOUCHER: To the extent -- I'm not the legal authority on the War Powers Act. But, as I said, any deployment of troops will be done in accordance with prevailing U.S. statutes. Q What about a televised address by the Administration to explain to the American people where their sons and daughters are getting ready to go? MR. BOUCHER: I think that's something you better ask the White House.

[Nicaragua: US Releases $54 Million in Economic Assistance]

Q Richard, I understand the Nicaraguan Government was informed yesterday that about half of the $104 million, which has been put on hold in terms of assistance, is being released. I wonder if you could shed some light on that? MR. BOUCHER: Yes. Yesterday, the Acting Secretary informed the Nicaraguan Ambassador that the President has decided to release $54 million in economic assistance to the Government of Nicaragua. The funds are needed to sustain Nicaragua's economic stabilization program and to preserve gains made in controlling inflation and normalizing Nicaragua's relations with the international financial institutions. This is essential to Nicaragua's economic recovery and consolidation of democracy. While we respect progress made in these areas and in reducing the size of the armed forces, we believe there is much yet to be done. Nicaragua will not be able to promote economic growth or attract needed foreign investment unless the rule of law and civilian authority over the security forces are firmly established, and property rights and human rights are fully protected. We're also deeply concerned about continued murder and other violations of the human rights of former members of the Nicaraguan Resistance and other political figures. These are despicable acts and must be brought to an end. We join President Chamorro in expressing shock and abhorrence at the November 23 assassination of Arges Sequiera, President of the National Association of Confiscated Property Holders and President of the Association of Agricultural Producers. We expect that the newly created tripartite commission will fully investigate these crimes, and that those responsible will be brought to justice. A little more about the money. The assistance includes $40 million in economic support funds to replenish foreign currency reserves, to finance oil imports, and to meet obligations to international financial institutions. It includes $14 million in project funding which will serve a variety purposes, including strengthening democratic institutions and human rights organizations and promoting economic development. A portion of these funds will be used to rebuild the Managua headquarters of COSEP, the Superior Council of Private Enterprise, which was damaged by a terrorist bombing on December 1.

[Nicaragua: Human Rights Abuses]

Q Do you have a rundown -- a more comprehensive rundown on the degree of Nicaraguan compliance with the set of conditions put forth by Senator Helms? MR. BOUCHER: We have previously spoken about some of our concerns with regard to the situation in Nicaragua, and I have repeated here today our view that Nicaragua won't be able to see economic growth, or attract foreign investment without the kinds of things that we have been talking to the Nicaraguan Government about. We're also concerned about the human rights violations, rule of law, civilian authority over security forces, property rights, and human rights. More needs to be done. There needs to be progress in those areas. I don't have a particular tick list of things that have and haven't been done at this point. I think I've explained the decision more generally by saying that economic conditions are deteriorating in Nicaragua. There's a donors meeting convened in Managua yesterday. We believe it is essential to release these funds in order to preserve the gains that have already been made and to avoid the risk of further economic difficulties. We'll continue to work with the Government of Nicaragua on these issues, and $50 million in economic support funds does remain withheld. Q And that $50 million -- what's going to happen with that, Richard? MR. BOUCHER: Well, it remains withheld, and we've continued to watch the situation, to talk to the government in Managua about the concerns that we've had in these various areas. Q People close to Senator Helms report that they will attempt to legislate a stop to the release of those monies. My question is, how soon will this money be released? The decision has been taken to release -- MR. BOUCHER: The decision has been taken to release it. I assume it's released. There are various stages in releasing money, of sort of moving it from accounts into obligated accounts and then actually spending the money. So I'm not sure I can predict the exact process on that, but the decision has been made to release the money and to apply it to these programs. Q Was Senator Helms consulted on this, or was he informed about it? MR. BOUCHER: Members of Congress were notified of the decision. I don't have a specific list of those who were. Q But they were notified after consultation or without consultation? MR. BOUCHER: We've been talking to members of Congress for many, many months about these issues. So what I have at this point is that they were notified of the decision. Q Can you take the question on the property confiscation issue and how many cases have been resolved? MR. BOUCHER: Okay, I'll try to find that out for you.

[Mexico: Alvarez Machain Trial in US/Impact on US Relations]

Q In the same region, the Mexican Government has protested or reiterated its opposition to a trial taking place in Los Angeles. It says that a Mexican citizen was illegally kidnapped by the U.S. for prosecution in killing a DEA agent, and I wondered if you had any response? MR. BOUCHER: The Mexican Government, it's my understanding, has registered its concern about the manner in which Dr. Alvarez Machain came to the United States and about his subsequent trial. Our position on this I think has been stated before, but I'll go through it again. We've said in the past that the Supreme Court decision in the Alvarez Machain case reaffirmed the U.S. Government's domestic legal position that a U.S. court has jurisdiction over a criminal defendant, regardless of the means by which the defendant was brought before the court. It did not give a "green light" to abductions from foreign territory. We are committed to anti-narcotics cooperation with Mexico, with full respect for the sovereign rights and prerogatives of both our nations. We have taken a number of actions to address the Mexican Government's concern. In late June or early July, President Bush wrote to President Salinas that the Administration would not conduct, encourage or condone abductions from Mexico. We don't believe that this case should affect our close and mutually beneficial cooperation with Mexico on a broad range of bilateral issues.

[Former Yugoslavia: No Fly Zone/Violations/ Secretary General's Report]

Q Richard, Douglas Hurd today indicated to reporters in London, I believe it was, that there may be some movement on the "no-fly" zone, towards enforcing that, over Yugoslavia. Is there -- can you update us on that? MR. BOUCHER: I hadn't seen his remarks, so I don't have anything specifically on that. I sort of have a review of the situation that I can go through with you and just describe to you what's gone on with that. First, it's worth noting that the "no-fly" zone has clearly had an impact on Bosnian Serb use of aircraft. Before the establishment of the "no-fly" zone, Bosnian Serb fixed-wing aircraft were frequently engaged in bombing missions, combat missions and bombing of villages under siege by ground forces. There have been reports, numerous reports, of flights since the "no-fly" zone was established which in the view of the Secretary General appeared to be violations. His four reports describe some 175 flights during the month of November, many observed taking off or landing by U.N. observers stationed at airfields. The Secretary General's fourth report, issued on November 27, said, "There appear to have been 55 flights of fixed or rotary wing aircraft in the airspace of Bosnia-Herzegovina without UNPROFOR authorization. He refers to these as "apparent violations of the ban on military flights over Bosnia-Herzegovina airspace," and notes that "these were immediately protested by UNPROFOR to the party concerned." He's also reported 17 additional flights for the November 17-19 period. His November 20 report said that there appeared to have been 73 flights. The Secretary General has not reported any use of the fixed-wing or rotary aircraft in combat missions such as bombing. We look to the Secretary General for information on the flights. The U.N. is in the best position to provide flight information now that UNPROFOR monitors are stationed at airfields. We also have separate reports now of flights during this period, including Monday and Tuesday of this week. We continue to discuss the reports of flights with the United Nations and our allies, and we do intend to see that the terms of the "no-fly" resolution are observed, and we are considering further steps in this regard. That's were we stand. Q Have you seen a report on a plane shot down this morning in -- over the -- in the "no-fly" zone? There was a report out of -- MR. BOUCHER: There was a radio report or something like that or a wire. Q Yes. MR. BOUCHER: I haven't seen any confirmation of that from our side at this point. Q Richard, having noted that there were no cases of combat, it would -- Q He didn't say that. MR. BOUCHER: I noted the Secretary General has not reported any. Q Well -- "combat uses," I think was the phrase you used, was it not? MR. BOUCHER: Any use in combat missions such as bombing. As usual, everybody's right. (Laughter) Q Right. In any case, it would seem that one could infer that until there is a violation involving combat uses of these craft, that there won't be any further steps taken about enforcement? MR. BOUCHER: I don't want to set a different standard than the standard in the U.N. resolution. It's worth noting this has had some effect. It's also worth noting that there have been numerous flights which appear to be violations. At this point that's what we're talking about with other countries, with the Secretary General, and I said we are considering further steps. Q Are we -- have we prepared a draft resolution for -- a draft "no-fly" zone resolution -- enforcement resolution? MR. BOUCHER: You know that we had such a resolution in the past. I'm not sure if a new one needs to be prepared, but at this point I really can't go beyond saying that we're continuing to consult. We do intend to see the resolution observed, and we're looking at what else we might do. Q Richard, is it possible to open up two fronts, so to speak, one in Somalia and one in Yugoslavia? MR. BOUCHER: I guess you can ask the Pentagon that, Sid. I assume that they have -- that there are enough forces in the world for whatever might be necessary. Q In another area: President Mobutu seems not to have been deterred by your joint statement the other day with the French. MR. BOUCHER: I noticed that, yes. Q Do you have a reading of what's going on there, and do you have any feeling about that? MR. BOUCHER: Yes. I don't have an up-to-date reading of that. I'll have to get you something, Jim.

[Serbia: Prime Minister Disqualified to Run for President]

Q Can we go back to Yugoslavia? Do you have anything to say on the Serbian election commission ruling that Panic could not run for president? MR. BOUCHER: Our understanding is that the Serbian election commission has announced at a press conference today that Milan Panic's application as a candidate for Serbian president had been rejected because he had failed to meet the one-year residency requirement. The Serbian law that established that requirement was passed in early November as part of an overall election law. He can appeal the decision to the head of the Serbian Supreme Court. He has 48 hours in which to appeal. According to Belgrade Radio, a total of eight candidates who filed applications were disqualified. There was a total of 13 who had filed applications, so eight out of 13 were disqualified. It should be noted that the president of the electoral commission which rejected the application is also the president of the Supreme Court which will consider the appeal. (Laughter) I would note as well that Mr. Panic was invited to become Prime Minister. At that time no objections were raised over the length of his residency. This we see as part of a pattern of actions which could preclude the possibility that free and fair elections could be held. Q Do you have anything at all on the reports of shooting in Pristina, the capital of Kosovo? MR. BOUCHER: There are conflicting reports of what's happening in Pristina. I'm afraid I'm not going to be able to help you sort them out too well. Q Do our sterling observers have any light to shed on that? MR. BOUCHER: We know -- apparently there were two ethnic Albanian teenagers that were shot by police. There are reports now that one of them has died. We're unable to confirm whether there was rioting or not. Western journalists in Pristina tell us that the city is tense but quiet. Our Embassy in Belgrade is looking into the situation, and the CSCE mission in Kosovo is expected to have a representative in Pristina later today. Q Taking a bus? MR. BOUCHER: I assume he's driving in his car. Q This is probably hopeless, but can I ask if the parties to the Mideast peace talks have told you that they'll be here? MR. BOUCHER: You can certainly ask, Barry, and I can certainly tell you that, no, we haven't heard yet from all the parties. Q Do you have any reaction to the vote yesterday in the Knesset on the PLO contacts? MR. BOUCHER: No. That's really a matter for the Israeli Government and the Israeli people. Q What about U.S. dialogue with the PLO? MR. BOUCHER: No change in that. Q No change in the criteria either? MR. BOUCHER: No. Q I mean, they still have to renounce -- MR. BOUCHER: It's the same. It all applies. Q Richard, could I go back to Somalia for a moment. Have you asked or are you negotiating a coalition similar to Desert Storm with the nearby neighbors of Somalia -- that is, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Egypt -- as providing troops for Somalia? MR. BOUCHER: At this point I think each country is going to have to speak for itself as far as providing troops goes. We have been in touch with other governments. I really can't give you a list at this point. Q Actually, just on that point, there were some stories yesterday that the United States would like to have some representative from black Africa, and the problem was that there were countries that were prepared to participate but they couldn't afford it. Is the United States in any sense offering economic assistance to any country in particular? MR. BOUCHER: Barrie, at this point I think issues such as finance of the operation are things that have been discussed, and they will be continue to be discussed, and it's just one of the specifics that I'm not able to get into. Q Richard, are you aware of any planning to create a fund that would reimburse other countries that might contribute -- MR. BOUCHER: Mark, at this point issues of finance are issues that are under discussion, and I'm not in a position to go into any more detail. Q Thank you. (The briefing concluded at 12:34 p.m.)

US Department of State Daily Briefing #176: Monday, 12/7/92

Boucher Source: State Department Spokesman Richard Boucher Description: Washington, DC Date: Dec, 7 199212/7/92 Category: Briefings Region: Subsaharan Africa, E/C Europe, Europe, South Asia, East Asia, MidEast/North Africa Country: Bosnia-Herzegovina, Serbia-Montenegro, Somalia, China, Slovak Republic, India Subject: Regional/Civil Unrest, Military Affairs, Development/Relief Aid, United Nations, CSCE, Travel, State Department, Mideast Peace Process, Regional/Civil Unrest l2:42 P.M. (ON THE RECORD UNLESS OTHERWISE NOTED) MR. BOUCHER: Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. If I can, I'd like to start with a few announcements, including telling you about a trip next week.

[CSCE: Acting Secretary to Travel to Ministerials]

Acting Secretary Eagleburger will be traveling to CSCE Ministerials, a Yugoslavia Ministerial, a NATO Ministerial, and a NACC -- a North Atlantic Coordination Council -- Ministerial, next week. We don't have the exact departure date for you at this point; we're still working on some of the arrangements. He will be in Stockholm on Monday for the CSCE Ministerial. He'll stay there until Wednesday. He'll leave Stockholm for Geneva for a Ministerial on the former Yugoslavia, and then we'll proceed on from there to Brussels. Q All on Wednesday? MR. BOUCHER: All on Wednesday. So then we'll be in Brussels on Thursday and Friday for the NATO and the North Atlantic Coordination Council Ministerials, and we expect to return to Washington on Friday. The usual provisos apply. All this is subject to change, to additions or otherwise modifications, but that looks like the basic outlines of the trip. Q Is the uncertainty about a departure date related to travel logistics, or is it related to the possibility of another stop? MR. BOUCHER: Both, both. Journalists wishing to accompany the Acting Secretary on his trip should sign up in the Press Office as soon as possible. A sign- up sheet is being posted now and will be taken down at noon tomorrow. Q Can you give the outside parameters of the departure date? (Laughter) MR. BOUCHER: Afternoon tomorrow. (Laughter) Q (Inaudible) MR. BOUCHER: One or two days earlier is possible. Q (Inaudible) MR. BOUCHER: I didn't, but he may leave a day or two before that. Q (Inaudible)

[Former Yugoslavia: War Crimes Commission]

MR. BOUCHER: Let's not speculate too widely, Betsy. You know generally where he's going to be, and we'll get to you any other stops if there are any on the way. O.K.? The fourth report on violations of humanitarian law in the former Yugoslavia was presented this morning to the U.N. Secretariat. We've asked that the report be circulated as a U.N. Security Council document, and we're also making it available to the media. As in our previous three reports, you'll find numerous examples of willful killing, torture of prisoners, deliberate attacks on non-combatants, wanton devastation and destruction of property, and other violations of humanitarian law, including mass forcible expulsions and deportation of civilians. Many of the items in this current report are based on eyewitness accounts, in many cases corroborating earlier accounts that we had heard; so you'll find the same kind of information, material and atrocities in there. And those copies will be available for you in the Press Office after the briefing. Q Richard, does this report suggest that all of these things are ongoing, that it has never really come to an end and that it continues at the present time, or is this in some period in the past? MR. BOUCHER: It deals with both. At least, I think some of the most recent information is about events that were reported to have occurred in November, some in October-September time period, so it's been continuing problems. It does supplement in much more detail some of the historical -- some of the information from several months ago. Q So to the best of your knowledge, the types of things which are described are continuing in one form or another. There's been no abatement? MR. BOUCHER: It depends on the types of things, and you'd have to base yourself on the actual information reported. There have been, as you know, there have been continuing reports of ethnic cleansing in the Banja Luka area. We've been concerned about that; we talked about that. Vance and Owen were out there. We've encouraged the U.N. -- the War Crimes Commission -- to go out there and do investigations. We've encouraged the U.N. Special Rapporteur's office to set up an on-site presence in Banja Luka. I don't remember at this point, and you'd have to look into the reports, whether the kinds of willful killings and executions that took place in the camps -- whether those, in fact, are reported to be still occurring; and that's something, of course, that the ICRC would have better information on than we do. I think, by the end of October, they'd registered about l0,000 prisoners; and to date some 2,900 to 3,000 have been released. So there's been, certainly, some progress in getting people released. But exactly what the conditions are now for those who remain in the camps, I think you'd have to check with the ICRC. Q Richard, have any other governments filed similar reports yet? MR. BOUCHER: I don't have a list, but I'm told that a number of other countries -- primarily countries in the immediate vicinity, countries which have received refugees from Bosnia-Herzegovina -- have made similar reports to the United Nations under the resolutions. Q What's the state of play with the War Crimes Commission now? Is there anything new? MR. BOUCHER: Nothing new that I know of, no. I mean they've been established. They have their membership. They're starting their work. Q Richard, are the Serbs mainly responsible for what has been described in this fourth report? MR. BOUCHER: Most of the incidents are incidents that are reported as being perpetrated by Serbs largely against the Muslim population. There are incidents against Serbs in there as well. Q Now, are there any camps that the U.S. knows of that the ICRC has not been able to get into to review, to look at? MR. BOUCHER: That's something I'll have to check on, John. Any information like this that we have that pertains to camps or that pertains to the work of the ICRC, we've certainly provided full and consistent information to them. Q Are there still people in camps who wouldn't be there if they had some other place to go? Which is to say if other countries would take them? MR. BOUCHER: I'm not aware that that's a problem at this point. The main problem in securing additional releases is that, despite the fact that the parties have agreed to unconditional releases, in practice as the ICRC works on this and tries to work it out, people have made the releases conditional and they have not been able to secure further releases without some forms of reciprocity. And so the ICRC has continued to work on that. Q To follow up on Sid's question about the Commission, you said it was beginning its work. This is the fourth report the U.S. has issued. I think the first one was in September or early October, as I recall. Then the U.S. got the resolution passed calling for the Commission. Presumably, it was beginning its work at that time. Does the U.S. think it ought to be -- is it time for people to move to the next stage? MR. BOUCHER: I don't have a specific update on where they are, Ralph, and, you know, how many investigations or interviews that they've conducted, how much material they've had to go over. I think that's the kind of information you get from the U.N. Q Does the U.S. think it's time to move to the next stage of this process yet? MR. BOUCHER: I think we've described the next stage as being one after individuals have been identified for possible prosecution. I'm not aware they've been able to do that yet. Q Richard, do you have any comment on President Reagan's suggestion that the only way you're going to put a stop to this is through military action? MR. BOUCHER: I don't have any comment on that, no. Q Do you have an updated situation report on the continued shelling in Sarajevo and the airlift situation there? MR. BOUCHER: I'd be glad to do that, unless -- and then we'll go back to Somalia. I've got a few things to say about Somalia, too. 0

[Situation Update: Bosnia ]

On Sarajevo: The airport is still closed to humanitarian supplies because of some small arms fire that hit a couple of airplanes last week. The humanitarian airlift remains suspended. Small arms fire hit both a U.S. relief flight and an UNPROFOR flight. Neither plane was seriously damaged. There were no injuries. The High Commissioner for Refugees and UNPROFOR will determine when they can resume the airlift. They're looking at the possibility of resuming it mid-week. Sarajevo and the surrounding areas continue to be undergoing attack by Bosnian Serb forces. Otes, the western suburb of Sarajevo, fell over the weekend to Bosnian Serb forces after days of intense fighting. There was small arms fighting today in central Sarajevo -- mostly around the parliament, the museum area, and the Jewish cemetery -- with Bosnian Serb forces attacking. Only 30 percent of Sarajevo had water today. Electricity was provided only to a central area, such as the hospital. And they have eight inches of snow on the ground. The city remains cold. A U.N. airlift is scheduled to resume perhaps on Wednesday. Elsewhere in Bosnia, there was continued fighting in Gradacac, Brcko, and Maglaj. Tuzla was quiet today, and the U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees was able to get in relief supplies. And I've just seen some press reports indicating that the train of supplies that was on its way to Mostar, according to press reports that got through. And we don't have any reports of fighting in Croatia. That's the update. Q What is the status of the "no-fly" zone? MR. BOUCHER: Not a whole lot changed on that. We've continued to support the Security Council resolution. The U.N. has protested to the parties flights that were not authorized by 0the U.N. We continue to discuss reports of flights with the U.N. and our allies. We do intend to see that the terms of the "no-fly" resolution are observed, and we're considering further steps in this regard. I think we've gone through before the Secretary General's four reports. He describes some l75 flights during the month of November that appear to be violations. He hasn't reported any use of fixed-wing or rotary aircraft in combat missions, such as bombing. We are seeking more information on a recent report, or recent reports that helicopters may have been used in combat. We look to the Secretary General for information on flights. We think the U.N. is in the best position to provide flight information now that UNPROFOR monitors are stationed at airfields. That's where we stand. Q Maybe I'm not enough of a military expert to understand, but what's the distinction between a rotary -- MR. BOUCHER: That's a helicopter. Q Yes. MR. BOUCHER: -- and a fixed-wing is an airplane. Q Right. So you said in the first sentence that there was no indication of combat flights by rotary aircraft -- MR. BOUCHER: I said the Secretary General, in his l75 flights that he reported in November, did not find any instances, or did not report any instances, where helicopters or aircraft were used in combat situations, such as bombing. However, at the same time, we have to say that we're following up on some reports that we've had more recently that helicopters might have been used in combat. We don't know yet; we haven't pinned those down. We're looking at the information available to us and we're talking to others. Q So are you getting closer to another resolution -- enforcement? MR. BOUCHER: We're considering further steps. We have not circulated a text. We're talking to the U.N. We're talking to allies, talking to other governments about the situation in Bosnia with regards to the use of aircraft, with regards to these flights, and the things that the Secretary General has reported. Q Are there steps that the U.S. thinks could be taken without an additional resolution? MR. BOUCHER: At this point, I can't go into further steps. Q And is the focus of further steps on the "no-fly" zone, or is there consideration being given to some of the other areas in the former Yugoslavia that are potentially new flash points? Is the U.S. -- MR. BOUCHER: Well, we've talked to other governments about the whole situation there; and I think we've talked to people at the CSCE and elsewhere frequently about the hot spots. Q But your focus is on the "no-fly" zone now? MR. BOUCHER: In terms of what we're discussing right now, we are discussing the "no-fly" zone and considering further steps. In that regard, the purpose is to find steps, find ways that we can make the ban on military flights, which the parties accepted and which was endorsed by a U.N. resolution to make that ban effective. But, obviously, there's a whole number of issues that relate to the situation in the former Yugoslavia and we're in constant touch with other governments about those as well. Q Have any of them circulated texts that you're aware of? MR. BOUCHER: Not that I know of. Q What's the purpose of the Ministerial meeting in Geneva -- of the Secretary of State's participation in the Ministerial meeting next week? MR. BOUCHER: I think we have to leave it to Vance and Owen to describe, perhaps in more detail, the purpose of the meeting. But the purpose of our going is to have a discussion with other concerned governments about the situation there and see what more we can do to improve it. Q Does the U.S. think that the further steps that you're considering are things that would be implemented before these consultations that you just referred to? MR. BOUCHER: I'm not able to predict any steps or any given time period, Ralph. Q Richard, just to be absolutely clear, the United States is circulating a draft of an enforcement resolution? MR. BOUCHER: No. I said we're not. Q You're not. Q Richard, given the level of aid that is getting through, or not getting through, in the former Yugoslavia, are there any government projections as to the number of people who will die of starvation or freezing to death this winter? MR. BOUCHER: There have been various projections and various scenarios described by different people. There have been U.N. scenarios described. There have been discussions in the press of supposedly internal government projections. The point I think that we've made in all those discussions is that the number is not how many -- what the estimate is now is not what's important. What's important now is to do as much as you can possibly to reduce that to the minimum possible level. That's why you have the effort which went on in November, through November, to beef up the UNPROFOR troops. The deployments are, indeed, out there. They haven't been fully deployed to all the locations where they're trying to go because they've met with resistance from local commanders and they've had to negotiate they way into the sites that they want to go. But the soldiers have been provided, and there's more troops out there right now. They have been exploring all sorts of new convoy routes and gotten many more convoys into new places. We've had convoys recently into Tuzla. As I said, there's a report that the train got into Mostar. We've been going to new places, while other places have been subject to fighting and have been closed off again. Sarajevo, of course, is a problem right now. Q Given the fact -- MR. BOUCHER: The point -- if I could just sort of finish up -- the point of what we're trying to do is not to estimate the number of deaths. The point is, we're trying to get food and supplies to people who really need them. Q Will there need to be a substantial increase in aid getting through to various places in the former Yugoslavia to avoid large-scale death this winter? MR. BOUCHER: There will need to be a continuation of the efforts that we have underway now. There will need to be regular flights into Sarajevo, regular convoys throughout Bosnia if we are to avoid some extreme hardship this winter. Q With eight inches of snow on the ground, no water and no electricity, it's already winter. What reports are you getting of deaths from exposure, etc., occurring now? MR. BOUCHER: I don't have any such reports. You might check with the people on the ground, who are the United Nations and the Red Cross and others. Q Richard, is there a danger here, with the suburb having been taken by the Bosnian Serbs, is now there a great danger that Sarajevo itself will fall to the Serbs? MR. BOUCHER: I don't think I can describe that danger to you, Saul. Certainly, we're concerned about the situation. We're concerned about the fighting because of the hardship that it brings to the city and to the people. Q Are you concerned about that possibility, that Sarajevo will come under the domination of the Serbs? MR. BOUCHER: I don't know. I haven't seen any sort of military analysis that would point one way or the other. Q Richard, in view of the imminent deployment of large numbers of U.S. forces in Somalia, it is possible that the authorities in Belgrade may think that we are otherwise engaged and distracted. That being the case, would you care to use this opportunity to lay down another marker about how much we would tolerate interference in Kosovo? MR. BOUCHER: Barrie, I appreciate the opportunities that you offer me on the spur of the moment here. We have, I think, made abundantly clear our concerns about the situation. We've made abundantly clear the various things that we are doing in Bosnia now. The United Nations has not waited for the opportunities created by you, but has, in fact, passed a series of resolutions on this subject and made abundantly clear the views of the Security Council on the continuation of the fighting; and, indeed, our serious concerns about the possible expansion of the fighting. Q Also made it abundantly clear they're not about to do in Bosnia what they've done in Somalia; do you not agree? MR. BOUCHER: No, I wouldn't agree with that. Q Is there a possibility -- MR. BOUCHER: I don't want to get into a whole compare-and-contrast situation. In Bosnia, we have imposed strong economic sanctions against Serbia, and we've made abundantly clear that we're going to continue to tighten those sanctions as time goes on in any way that we can find. We're, in fact, doing that. In Bosnia, we have beefed up a troop presence by foreign troops to help ensure that aid gets through. In Bosnia, we have provided a humanitarian airlift and a lot of other efforts to try to get food through, to try to get supplies through, and to try to do things like the humanitarian releases and to pursue war crimes and possible violations of humanitarian laws. The situations are different. I think that point was made very clear by people over the weekend. You can't simply dismiss the one situation as not -- say we're not going to do there what we did here. Of course, we're not, but that doesn't mean we're not doing anything. Q But the fact is, as you said, in spite of all of these things you said have been done in Bosnia, the ethnic cleansing continues. The alleged war crimes apparently continue. More ground is taken by the Bosnian Serbs on the outskirts of Sarajevo. The situation in Sarajevo continues to remain grave. What has changed as a result of the actions you've described? MR. BOUCHER: Saul, a lot has changed in some ways and nothing has changed in other ways. We have, indeed, gotten food to people who need it. We have, indeed, gotten winterization supplies to people who need it. We have, indeed, gotten 3,000 people out of the camps. For those people affected by that, a lot has changed. For others, the situation has continued. And, as you say, it's very difficult, it's very grim. But the efforts that we have underway continue. The sanctions that we have underway continue and continue to get tighter, and we'll keep working on Bosnia the way we're working on Somalia but just with different tools and different ways. Q Do you think these different tools will be effective in accomplishing what you've set out as our actions in Bosnia? Or may other things be discussed by the Acting Secretary when he goes abroad? MR. BOUCHER: I'm sure they'll look at all the possibilities of ways that they can improve the situation for the better.

[Somalia: Update]

Q Could you give us an update on Somalia? MR. BOUCHER: Okay. Somalia. A couple of things worth noting. First, we're continuing the relief missions, the aid flights. Friday, Saturday and Sunday, we had 41 flights that delivered 514 metric tons into Baidoa, Belet Weyne and Oddur in Somalia, and into Wajir, Kenya. Combined U.S. military and civilian airlift total now comes to 25,846 metric tons -- Somalia and Kenya. In terms of news, Ambassador Robert Oakley will head the U.S. Liaison Office in Mogadishu. He arrived there -- he and a team arrived there this morning. He has already begun meeting with local leaders and expects to meet with various factions in Somalia -- faction leaders in Mogadishu -- and will be working in three broad and basic areas. First of all, supporting the U.N. political reconciliation initiatives; second of all, helping to improve security conditions; and third of all, coordinating with U.S. relief efforts. He'll be, obviously, in close touch with our military people, as well as with people on the ground for the non-governmental organizations and the other assistance efforts that are underway out there. He'll be assisted by a small but experienced staff of officers drawn from the State Department, the U.S. Agency for International Development, and the Department of Defense. So he's out there. And now questions. Q Is that the first U.S. diplomatic presence in Somalia in almost two years? MR. BOUCHER: I think so. I'd have to check and see whether -- I mean, it's the first established presence. I'd have to check and see if Pete de Vos might have been in and out of there once or twice. Q Are they going back to the Embassy to live? MR. BOUCHER: I don't have anything on the location at this point. Q Do you have anything on air traffic controllers going into -- MR. BOUCHER: That would be -- you'd get from the Pentagon. Q Richard, what has happened to the food that you're saying was flown in in the last three days? Do you know if it's sitting at the -- MR. BOUCHER: I don't know about these specific shipments. What we found out before about food that was being flown in was that, in most cases, at these towns where we were flying to, we were able to distribute it out there. The main problem with food was that the mass -- the major part of the food, which I think some 80 percent was supposed to come through the ports and the trucking system, that that was being -- those trucks were being hijacked, looted, held up for ransom, etc. So that was the part that wasn't getting through, and our airlift can only support about 20 percent of the needs. Q Richard, do you have any kind of readout on the meeting in Addis Ababa? MR. BOUCHER: Yes, a fair amount of information. I think we have copies of some statements that the Somali clans and factions issued out there that we'd be glad to share with you. The U.N. invited a broad spectrum of Somali leaders, representatives of private relief agencies operating in Somalia, and observers from among major donor countries to a meeting in Addis Ababa last week. Representatives of many clans and factions attended the conference. Somali representatives said repeatedly that they were delighted to have the opportunity to meet in a neutral venue. They indicated overwhelming support for the expanded U.N. effort in Somalia. They agreed that improved security is essential to effective relief operations. This conference, in our view, represented a major opportunity for the Somali leaders to take the initiative in ending the civil strife and suffering in their country. Our delegation came away from the conference with a sense that the Somali leaders who attended appear to be willing to seize the opportunity to begin the work with the U.N. to bring relief, rehabilitation, and national reconciliation to Somalia. Q Are other meetings planned? MR. BOUCHER: I'm not sure if the U.N. has any other conferences like this planned. Of course, we have plans for further meetings with the factions, and the U.N. has the Special Representative, Ambassador Kittani, whose job it has been and will continue to be to work with the Somalis on rehabilitation efforts, including the establishment of local/regional government structures and moving on there to possible reconciliation efforts. Q Just curious what Oakley is saying to these factional leaders in the meeting today. Is he imploring them, warning them, what sort of tone is he taking? MR. BOUCHER: I haven't been in these meetings. I think you would expect to see him saying what the President said and what the other senior leaders of our government has said over the past few days, and that's we're coming on a humanitarian mission. We seek cooperation. We don't seek confrontation with the Somali people nor do we seek to take sides in their conflict. But we're coming to help get food to starving people; we're coming to help re-establish security in the country so that, indeed, the efforts that we're making for assistance can go through; and that, finally, it's up to the Somali leaders themselves to work out the future of Somalia and that we, the U.N., and others are certainly willing to be helpful in that regard. Q What's the difference between establishing a government in Somalia and what -- you talked about it being the establishment of local and regional government structures? MR. BOUCHER: There's a difference, Ralph, between sort of establishing it from outside from the top and working with the Somalis themselves in various local and regional areas to help them set up the kind of administrative structures that are needed. And, as we've said, that whole process is in the hands of the United Nations, and we're supporting it. Q You said that Oakley would be meeting with them to do the same sorts of things; right? MR. BOUCHER: Well, he would support -- Q Meeting with them to support the U.N.? MR. BOUCHER: I think I started off by saying he would support the U.N. efforts at reconstruction and rehabilitation. Q Will the U.S. and the U.N. be, in effect, anointing local leaders by having these meeting with them and essentially saying to the people of Somalia that these people with whom we are having the meetings are the ones that should be in charge of the government? MR. BOUCHER: No, I don't think we're doing that. Obviously, in the first stage, we have to meet with people that need to know about our operations, need to know about the relief effort, whose cooperation is necessary or, at least, helpful as we go forward. We don't recognize any government in Somalia nor does the United Nations nor any other country.

[Slovakia: US Discovers Listening Devices in Bratislava Consulate

Q New subject: Richard, on the U.S. Consulate in Slovakia, does the United States accept today's explanation by the Slovak Prime Minister that this happened five or six years ago and had nothing to do with the new government there? MR. BOUCHER: I haven't seen today's explanation, so I can't give you a judgment on it at this point. For those who don't know what we're talking about, however, the U.S. Government was dismayed to find listening devices in the Consulate General in Bratislava. This kind of activity we think cannot be helpful to the bilateral relationship. We have asked senior officials of both the Federal and the Slovak Governments to investigate this incident, to urgently provide us with full details, and for their assurances that this kind of activity will not continue. We hope the incident can be put behind us. Q Have you been able to determine how long those devices might have been in there? MR. BOUCHER: I don't have that information. I don't know. Q The building was standing empty until about a year ago, and then there were extensive renovations, and it was opened as a consulate in the fall of 1991. Who carried out the renovations? Was any local labor used? MR. BOUCHER: I don't know. I'd have to check on that. I understand that these devices were found during the process of reconstruction and repair. Q Are you confident that you found all the bugs? MR. BOUCHER: I don't know, Sid. That's for experts to decide and not usually for us to talk about. Q Is there any thought to abandoning the mission? MR. BOUCHER: Not that I've heard of. Q Richard -- MR. BOUCHER: I guess that would depend on further investigation, though. Q Could you tell me, please, Ralph Johnson met on a Friday the Czech Ambassador here in Washington. Was delivered some diplomatic note or verbal protest? What was the subject of discussion? MR. BOUCHER: I don't know. I'll have to check on that meeting. Q Could you confirm, please, or deny today's report in Slovak press, leading Slovak daily which is called Narodna Obroda, which quote that Larry Eagleburger, realizing that this happened, was so angered that plaster from the walls in his cabinet was falling apart? (Laughter) MR. BOUCHER: I haven't seen any plaster falling up in his office, but I also haven't seen the Slovak press. I'm afraid that's not the kind of thing I can talk about. Q Another follow-up: Today's Slovak press is -- I am quoting today's Slovak press that there was certain -- that it will be provocation against Slovakia which is going to establish diplomatic relationship in a few weeks with United States. In connection with the leakage, quoting Czech television from Friday night, that whole affair was leaked by American Embassy in Prague. Could you comment on that? MR. BOUCHER: No, I can't comment on that. I haven't been reading the Slovak press. I don't ever try to explain leaks. I think that's for people -- our friends in the press corps to explain rather than us. Q Richard, is the U.S. Consul, Paul Hacker, is he still in the United States? Or has he gone back? MR. BOUCHER: I don't know where he is. Q Can you check into that? MR. BOUCHER: I'll check if it's relevant. I don't know that it is. Q Well, he came here presumably to inform the State Department about what was going on there. MR. BOUCHER: You're making assumptions. I'll try to check on where he is. Q Richard, when were the bugs first discovered, and why has it not come out until this weekend? MR. BOUCHER: My understanding is they were discovered during reconstruction work that's fairly recent, but I'm not sure exactly when it was. Q And why did it not come out until so recently? MR. BOUCHER: We don't usually advertise these things. Q Well, actually in the case of the former Soviet Union, you advertised them quite extensively-- MR. BOUCHER: I guess it depends. Q --to the tune of several hundred million dollars worth of reconstruction plans. MR. BOUCHER: It depends. I said "usually," Ralph. Q How many more of these do you have that haven't been announced? MR. BOUCHER: I don't know, Norm. Q Would you take that question? MR. BOUCHER: No. Q Speaking of meetings with Ambassadors, is the Secretary comparing notes about searches of passport files with the British Ambassador today? MR. BOUCHER: No, he is not. Q He promised Donaldson an investigation. MR. BOUCHER: You just hang on; he was discussing it with Sam Donaldson. Now, the next step I'm going to tell you about today. That was yesterday. I'll tell you about today. At the request of the Acting Secretary, the Inspector General is conducting an inquiry in cooperation with appropriate authorities here and in the United Kingdom to determine if U.S. Government employees requested or were otherwise involved in the British search. Although there is no evidence of such a request or involvement to date, we are reviewing our interviews conducted here and in London, and we are proceeding further. Q Richard, have the lawyers made any progress on Larry's tenuous status as of December 20? MR. BOUCHER: I didn't check today to see if we have the final answer on that. I'll try to get you one. Q Is December 20th the date? MR. BOUCHER: Again, I haven't calculated the exact date, but it's some time around there. Q Richard, back on the U.K. investigation again for a second. You said you would check -- he's checking to see if U.S. Government employees requested the investigation. MR. BOUCHER: Or were otherwise involved. Q Or were otherwise involved, right. MR. BOUCHER: In the British search. Q Do you know yet whether the British search provided any information to the U.S. Government or whether the U.S. Government was informed in any way about the -- MR. BOUCHER: As I said, Ralph, there's no evidence at this point of any such request or any involvement to date. I think the things you're asking about would come under the category of involvement. But that is what we're looking at, to find out if U.S. Government employees requested or were otherwise involved.

[India: US Reaction to Violence]

Q Richard, anything on -- a comment on the riots in India following the destruction of the mosque? MR. BOUCHER: Sure. We deplore the destruction of the Ayodhya Mosque and the violence and loss of life. We call on everyone to exercise maximum restraint and to resolve the dispute peacefully in accordance with the provisions of the Indian constitution. Religious tolerance is a fundamental value that must be respected throughout the world, and we are following the situation closely. The U.S. Embassy in New Delhi has advised American citizens to avoid areas where disturbances have occurred and to defer travel to the Uttar Pradesh state where the mosque is located until the situation improves. We will be updating our travel advisory accordingly. We also note that visitors should be aware that demonstrations can occur anywhere in India without warning, and that 24-hour curfews have been imposed in many areas. Q Richard, is the U.S. concerned over the slow reaction of the Indian Government? Apparently these extremists had been demolishing the mosque for over five hours and no troops had been brought in. MR. BOUCHER: I don't have any particular statements on one aspect or another of it. We've said the violence is bad. We've deplored the violence on either side, and the loss of life that occurred. It's something that we're concerned about generally. I don't have a comment on the actions of one side or another. Q Richard, there was also a State Department official this morning telling U.S. and Indian businessmen that the U.S. had been speaking to other governments over the affair. Could you tell us what these meetings were about -- calls were about or what the governments were involved? MR. BOUCHER: I hadn't heard of that. I'd have to check. Q Richard, on the peace talks, does the Administration have anything to say about the Palestinians' political gesture of sending only four people here and their criticism of the United States for not taking an active enough role in the process? MR. BOUCHER: I hadn't seen their criticism of the United States for our role. I think we've amply described our role, and we continue to be the driving force, the catalyst. We continue to work strong on the process. They have sent a small team this time. I'll leave it up to them to describe the whys and the wherefores of that. But overall, I think it's worthy of note that all the delegations have arrived, and they'll resume their bilateral talks today. The Israelis met with the Lebanese and Jordanian delegations this morning. They meet with Syrian and Palestinian delegations this afternoon. Assistant Secretary Djerejian and the peace process team spoke with several of the parties over the weekend and expect to meet with and maintain close contact with the delegations throughout the talks. Q Richard, back to the passport thing for a moment, were you saying that the search was -- that Funk's job is only to look at U.S. Government employees who may have made such a request or, as opposed to campaign officials or somebody else? Are you saying that there is no evidence that a request was made, or that there is no evidence that U.S. Government employees -- State Department employees made such a request? MR. BOUCHER: Funk will look at anything -- wherever the evidence or the information leads him. The distinction I was trying to draw was, no, we're not investigating the British and what they did. We're investigating anything on the U.S. side that may have been -- a request or any kind of involvement from the U.S. side that we -- that there might be in this -- in prompting the British search, requesting it or somehow being involved in it. We don't have any such evidence to date, but that's what he's got to look into. Q But that would include -- Q Would that include campaign officials? MR. BOUCHER: Obviously, he'll start with government officials, but I'm sure he's willing to follow leads wherever they lead. Q Back to the consulate in Bratislava. U.S. officials over there have said that they believe that the bugs were installed or activated after May 1991. They're battery operated and the batteries had to be replaced recently. Do you have any comment on why they'd be saying that? MR. BOUCHER: I don't have any comment on unnamed officials, no. Q No comment on what? MR. BOUCHER: Whatever unnamed officials might say, and, as I said, we've requested information and details on this, and we'll get them from the Czechoslovak Government. We've got a few more back there.

[China: US Computer Export Controls]

Q Richard, do you have any comment on the sale of the supercomputer to China? MR. BOUCHER: I'll tell you a little bit about it -- about where it stands. Computer exports to China are evaluated on a case-by-case basis. They're subject to appropriate license conditions. Important factors in determining whether a license is granted include: (a) whether the commodity is for civilian end-use and civilian end-user; (b) whether the commodity is appropriate for the stated end-use; and (c) whether reasonable safeguards to allay concerns of diversion or other national security issues can be applied. Cray Research Corporation has applied for a license to export a supercomputer to China's State Meteorological Administration. The supercomputer will be used to improve weather forecasting and to improve coordination with other countries' weather stations, which use Cray computers. The license application is still under consideration in an inter-agency context. The application includes a proposal for extensive safeguards. If the U.S. Government approves the sale, it would still have to be coordinated with our partners in the Coordinating Committee for Export Controls (COCOM). Q Would those safeguards apply to other uses, other than meteorological uses or -- MR. BOUCHER: No. The safeguards would apply to meteorological use of this computer to ensure that the computer is only used for the purposes for which it's exported. Q For meteorological purposes? MR. BOUCHER: Yes. Q At present, does China have any supercomputers? MR. BOUCHER: That gets in somewhat to the definition of supercomputers. Not that I'm aware of, not in this range. Q American Cray products or anything -- MR. BOUCHER: You'd have to ask the company or the Chinese that. Q Richard, one -- Q Have you been able to establish whether the alleged sale of M-11 missiles to Pakistan is a breach of the MTCR? MR. BOUCHER: No determinations on that have been made. Q One more on the Funk investigation. Does Eagleburger -- has Eagleburger expressed any desire to have any follow-up report to the one that was initially issued, now that several other aspects of this investigation or this incident have come to light, or are we now in a mode where they'll order -- or Funk will sort of take off on investigations of his own, but there's no expected outcome? MR. BOUCHER: Well, it depends on the issue, and it depends where the evidence leads. The investigation as a whole remains open. If there's something to report, I'm sure that the Inspector General will report on that. There are certain specific aspects of it that remain under investigation, either here with the case of any U.S. involvement in the British search where, depending on where it leads, we would expect to get some sort of report or summary of conclusions from the Inspector General. And then, of course, there are other aspects that are under investigation by Justice or the FBI. Q Have any U.S. -- presently employed U.S. Government employees of the State Department been called to testify in connection with the investigations underway of State Department activities? MR. BOUCHER: What do you mean, "called to testify"? On the Hill? Q To give testimony, to give depositions - MR. BOUCHER: That's a question you have to ask the people conducting the investigations, and I know for our part we don't talk about who's been interviewed or not. Q Are there any changes in the employment status of any of the people talked about in the Funk investigation since we last asked the question? MR. BOUCHER: I don't know, Saul. I just don't know. Q But you do talk about when people give testimony or are interviewed. We had a press briefing here just a couple, three weeks ago in which it was discussed who had been interviewed at the White House and who had been interviewed here, and so on and so forth? MR. BOUCHER: Yes. And we gave you a list of 70 people and 107 interviews, or something like that. Q So the question is has -- MR. BOUCHER: While things are under investigation, if you remember, I don't think we ever talked about who was being interviewed. Q But we now know that things were still under investigation then. We didn't know that at the time, but we now know that. MR. BOUCHER: I can't give you a list of people the Inspector General is going to interview in regards to this matter. I'm sure that if he gives us a report or a summary of conclusions or wants to give us at some point a list of interviews, I'd be glad to share those with you. Q But the question wasn't about the Inspector General's interviews. The question was about State Department government employees who have been interviewed by the Justice Department. Have any U.S. -- MR. BOUCHER: And you can ask the Justice Department who they're investigating and if they're interviewing anybody at the State Department. I'm not going to speak on behalf of other people who are doing interviews. Q But will you speak on behalf of the employees on whose behalf you speak every day? MR. BOUCHER: I will speak on behalf of those conducting the investigations when they want me to speak on their behalf, and I have no instructions today to talk about who they're interviewing. Q But what about Saul's question about changes in employment status of any of those folks who were named by the Inspector General? MR. BOUCHER: With over 70 names in the report and one hundred and some pages of the report? Q I'm talking about the State Department employees in the Bureau of -- in the Consular Bureau who are named or elsewhere -- are there any changes in their status? MR. BOUCHER: I'll check and see if we have any changes in their employment status to announce. Q Does Berry have a job, for instance? MR. BOUCHER: I'll check on that. Q If he's still getting his salary, what is he doing? MR. BOUCHER: I am not aware of any changes, Saul. I'll be glad to check for you. Q What are his duties? MR. BOUCHER: I'll be glad to check for you. Q Richard, thank you. Q Thank you. (The briefing concluded at 1:24 p.m.)