July, 1992

US Department of State Daily Briefing #101: Thursday, 7/2/92

Tutwiler Source: State Department Spokesman Margaret Tutwiler Description: Washington, DC Date: Jul, 2 19927/2/92 Category: Briefings Region: E/C Europe, MidEast/North Africa Country: Yugoslavia (former), Bosnia-Herzegovina, Serbia-Montenegro, USSR (former), Ukraine, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Armenia, Iraq Subject: Regional/Civil Unrest, Military Affairs, Development/Relief Aid, United Nations, Mideast Peace Process, State Department, Arms Control, Nuclear Nonproliferation 12:00 P. M. (ON THE RECORD UNLESS OTHERWISE NOTED)

[Announcement: Reduced Briefing Schedule Next Week]

MS. TUTWILER: Tomorrow there will be no briefing at the State Department. We're observing the Federal holiday. I hope that all of you do the same. Next week we're going to be operating on a reduced briefing schedule, as we have whenever there are summits and overseas trips by the President. I don't have yet when the President's official press conferences are, or the Secretary's, but when they are, there will not be a State Department briefing. What I'd like to do for you this morning, I've tried to pull together for you an update on the situation in Yugoslavia -- the convoys, our two C-130s. I'll ask your indulgence if some of it is repetitive because the information -- obviously a lot of people in here are working on this subject -- came at me from different directions, and I have not had an opportunity this morning to correlate it all exactly for you. So some of it might be repetitive.

[Former Yugoslavia: Update on Fighting]

Last night and into the early morning hours, Serbian forces shelled Sarajevo and its suburbs, using artillery, mortar and tank fire. This morning some shooting and sniper fire continues. On Tuesday, as you all know, the United Nations officially assumed control of the airport from Serbian forces. An advance group of U.N. Security Council authorized Canadian troops arrived at the airport this morning. The remainder of the full two battalions of Canadians -- one infantry, one engineers -- is expected to arrive in Sarajevo later today. Once the Canadians have es tablished airport operations, the airlift, which will be organized by the UNHCR, should begin probably within 48 hours. We understand UNHCR is planning for airplanes to stop in Zagreb, integrate into the air bridge and then fly to Sarajevo. Truck capacity in Sarajevo is sufficient to transport approximately 20 metric tons a day from the airport into town. UNHCR plans for most of the aid delivered to be distributed the day it arrives. On June 30, four French planes brought in 33 tons of emergency relief supplies. We understand this has all been distributed. On July 1, another French plane brought in 8.5 tons of supplies. We do not have details yet on that distribution. Concerning convoys, UNHCR continues to gear up its logistical operations to handle distribution of aid from the Sarajevo airport. UNHCR and other international humanitarian organizations, including private groups, continue to move supplies from Split to a staging area near Sarajevo. Plans are still underway for some new UNHCR convoys this week, but I don't have the details. Concerning fighting in other parts of Bosnia, we understand that sometimes severe Serbian shelling and fighting continues in other areas throughout Bosnia. We have reports that fighting is particularly heavy in north central Bosnia. We remain concerned about continuing reports of Croatian military units from Croatia which are active in Bosnia. And, as you know, on the diplomatic front, the CSCE at the senior experts level have been meeting in Helsinki. They are discussing Yugoslavia, reviewing the situation, and that meeting is continuing today. I don't have any results for you. Concerning our airplanes, we have two C-130s that the Secretary announced yesterday. They are in Rhein-Mein. We expect to bring our first flight into Sarajevo via Zagreb on July 3. As you know, the airport has been declared open. The flights will carry MREs and/or U.N. foodstuffs already in Zagreb. At least one forklift -- meaning a United States' forklift -- will be sent to assist in the offloading. The technical reason for this is that the French pallets do not work on our pallets, and we have to have our own forklift to get our loaded stuff on our types of pallets off of these airplanes. We have now EUCOM planners that are in Geneva, working at the UNHCR Ops Center, and coordination is going in our opinion very, very well. UNHCR, as you know or I believe you know, will be coordinating all relief flights. They will be making the schedules. Their Ops Center will be operating out of Geneva, as the Secretary said yesterday. The G-24 is establishing a working group to coordinate relief with the UNHCR. Logistics Center for inspections for clearances, etc., will be operating out of Zagreb, and all aircraft will touch down here for inspection before proceeding on to Sarajevo. The UN peacekeeping force will operate on a "prior permission basis" schedule at the airport that will be established by the UNHCR. UN peacekeeping forces will unload planes and transport the goods to a central warehouse for release to the UNHCR. Local NGOs there from the community will assist the UNHCR in the distribution throughout Sarajevo. The entire UNHCR team is expected in Sarajevo momentarily. These are the logistics types, the planning types, and the team is a little over 30 people. I have for you, but I prefer for other countries to do it, the United Nations is obviously asking other nations to send their aircraft with foodstuffs. A number of countries have agreed to do this, but I'll just leave it to them to respond. Right now the United States -- what we are still planning is our 80 sea containers of MREs that we mentioned earlier to you, I think, this week on Monday, plus bulk food that will follow. And I do not have for you -- Pete [Williams] is briefing today and can do all the specifics of what the bulk food is, where it's coming from, etc. We have had no additional overnight, to date, requests for additional United States aircraft to help in the airlift. Q Margaret, are those C-130s going in naked, without any close air support? MS. TUTWILER: As far as I know. Q No U.S. jet fighter escorts? MS. TUTWILER: I hadn't heard a thing about that. Q Margaret, you mentioned that you expect the first U.S. flight to go into Zagreb on July 3, is that correct? MS. TUTWILER: Yes. I think both our planes are scheduled for then. Q And then when would you expect them to get to Sarajevo? I mean, do you have a target for that? MS. TUTWILER: I don't. Not yet. Q What do you mean by "operate on a -- MS. TUTWILER: I'm sorry. I think I mean that they're going to Sarajevo on July 3 via Zagreb. Q Because that's where the food is. The equipment is in Zagreb, isn't it? MS. TUTWILER: Not necessarily. This is just a little complicated. Zagreb has been set up as -- one of the agreements, it's my understanding, that the United Nations made in putting this all together is, as you've seen on TV for the first French plane, there is going to be an inspection. What I call it is a "customs inspection" before plans actually land in Zagreb to assure any questioning party of the integrity of the contents of the airplane. So the U.N. will be inspecting, like customs officials, all planes. That's why they decided to make Zagreb the staging area for that type of activity. So they may well land there, Barry, loaded -- it's my understanding they will be loaded -- and then proceed on to Sarajevo. And my understanding is both our planes are scheduled to land in Sarajevo on July 3. Q What did you mean by "they'll operate on a prior permission basis"? MS. TUTWILER: Exactly what it says -- to avoid any confusion of any lack of communications or logistics, that we and everyone are cooperating in letting the United Nations determine when the planes should land, should not land, how many the runway can handle. That is to avoid any types of surprise aircraft that arrived well meaning, but they had not been anticipating and prepared for. Q Margaret, you referred to Serbian shelling, and then you gave us a kind of a schedule for going ahead with the relief. I'm trying to square or at least find some -- get some notion of how much shelling would cause the United States to deter this plan, because if I understand the U.S. position, it's to wait until everything is secure -- whatever "secure" means -- to engage in relief efforts. Is that the kind of shelling, for instance, last night, that were it going on on Sunday, the United States would not proceed with the relief? Or are you assuming there's going to be some gunfire, you know, pretty much every day, and unless it's really terrible, you're going to go ahead? MS. TUTWILER: What I'll do is leave those types of decisions to General MacKenzie, who's there on the ground, who will be advising or sending reports, as he has been, not only to our government but to all of the governments who are participating in this humanitarian airlift. I think that then, obviously, our military planners -- I said that we have some that are now in Geneva, it's several -- will assess for our government as others will. But to answer your other total hypothetical, I don't have a crystal ball, and I recognize you don't either. I don't think that anyone would be terribly surprised if there were not some random individuals who continue to take things into their own hands by sniper fire. Hopefully, local community leaders or whoever has influence over these people, will get them to see things differently. But sniper fire in downtown Sarajevo, the General would be the only one who could determine is that a threat to the airport or to the incoming airplanes or to the convoy routes they're going to obviously have to set up from the airport into town to the distribution to the NGOs. Q And this is the second time this week you've referred to Croatian firing. You have a handle of sorts on the Serbian-dominated government with sanctions. How does the United States propose to get the Croatians to hold their fire? What leverage do you have? MS. TUTWILER: I haven't heard of a specific plan, Barry. It's something that we continue to watch very closely. We have publicly been calling, when we see it, on the Croatians and on, to be honest with you, as you know, the Bosnians. Some of them have taken matters into their own hands. We will continue to do so. I'm not aware that our government feels that it is at a level of such that you would start a mechanism in another direction at this point. But that obviously is an option that's always on the table, but we feel that it is only accurate and fair to -- when we see other entities that are participating in this violence, to point it out and acknowledge it. Q Margaret, you said that the trucks -- the available trucks can transport 20 tons a day -- metric tons a day from the airport to town, I believe was your figure. The needs of Sarajevo are much greater than 20 tons a day. (A) Is the airlift, the air bridge, going to be able to put more than 20 tons a day on the airport; and (b) if they are, are there plans to increase the number of trucks taking it into town so that you begin to not have such stack up at the airport? MS. TUTWILER: I don't have those kinds of answers for you yet. The U.N. will be assessing this. They honestly are really running the logistical operation, as they correctly should. I don't know how to answer that for you, because I don't have the information at my fingertips.

[Serbia: American Citizen Appointed Prime Minister/Impact/ Treasury Department License Granted]

Q Margaret, this morning a Serbian-American by the name of Milan Panic announced that he was accepting the appointment as Prime Minister of Yugoslavia. He made a statement in which he said he was going to try to bring an end to the fighting, and he was going to bring democracy to Yugoslavia, and it sounded like all the right things that we would like him to do. Could you give us any sense as to what you rate his chances of being able to accomplish those things or even anything as Prime Minister of Yugoslavia? MS. TUTWILER: No. But I will tell you what the facts are from the United States Government's view. Mr. Panic has been nominated to be Prime Minister of Yugoslavia. Under existing Executive Orders -- United States -- he could not travel to Belgrade and perform the duties of that position unless the Treasury Department issued him a release. He is not a "United States candidate," as has been reported in some reporting. We do not endorse or support or have any views about him serving as Prime Minister. It is entirely Mr. Panic's decision. The license was granted simply and solely to avoid a situation in which he was prohibited from making his own decision about whether or not to serve as Prime Minister. The license is granted with the express condition that he not encourage, condone or tolerate violation of United Nations sanctions by his government. As Prime Minister he will be responsible for his own actions. The requirement that Serbia-Montenegro comply with the United Nations resolutions is not new but has already been established by the United Nations Security Council. Q What kind of license? Prime Minister license? MS. TUTWILER: We have United Nations sanctions, as you know, right now which prohibit any kind of commerce. Q Do you mean an exception or something? MS. TUTWILER: Sure. We had to give a license. It's an exception to the sanctions that are currently on for our country and other countries on former Yugoslavia. Q You mean you consider this to be commerce or what? MS. TUTWILER: Of course, You have hotel bills. That is commerce. And you have meals, you have any types of expenses. Right now you have to get waivers. You have to get a license. You, as a media person, if you go in there, as your media are, you're getting some types of waivers or licenses from our government to be operating in there, because you are spending currency. There are total economic sanctions on. Q Margaret, does this affect his passport in any way? I mean, his status as a U.S. citizen -- MS. TUTWILER: His citizenship? Q Can he be an official of a foreign government and still hold his American passport? MS. TUTWILER: Yes. As you know, right now, just to give another example, the current Foreign Minister of Armenia is from California -- an American. Yes, you can do both. There are many instances throughout our history of that. I have to tell you also, though, that as a matter of policy and practice, we do not provide an advance determination on loss of nationality. This is an extremely complicated legal issue within our legal system, and there are legal and factual circumstances that would have to be evaluated and analyzed, should that issue come up. Q Does he still have a legal avenue in front of him that he's going to have to pursue in order to retain his American citizenship? MS. TUTWILER: I really honestly -- and I met personally this morning with the lawyers concerning the legality of -- whether it's his citizenship or any other person's citizenship, I have to stick within the guidance. This is how -- it's my understanding it's never come up since I've been here at the State Department in my tenure. This is how, I'm told, because I asked, this is how it's always handled. Q It hasn't come up, because the Supreme Court has ruled on such matters, and that's why it doesn't come up any more. The man hasn't renounced his citizenship, has he? MS. TUTWILER: The man has not. No. That wasn't the question. Q So you cannot threaten to take away his citizenship -- the U.S. Government cannot -- MS. TUTWILER: That's not the question. Q Well, I mean you read a very ambiguous statement there, but -- MS. TUTWILER: Her question was, "Does this affect his citizenship?" Q It doesn't affect his citizenship. Is that what you're saying? MS. TUTWILER: I'm going to continue to use the legal phrase that, it's my understanding, has been used here -- and you've been here for a lot longer than I have -- Q I covered the Supreme Court before that, and you can't lose your citizenship except by renouncing it. MS. TUTWILER: I'm not a lawyer. I don't know. Q If you serve in a foreign war, you can lose it. MS. TUTWILER: Well, you're more familiar with United States law than I am, and in my meeting with the lawyers this morning, I'm very confident that when these types of cases have come up in the past, according to our legal search this morning, we have, as a practice, said to -- if you were the individual who was requesting this of our Department, if your lawyers were requesting this of our Department, if you as the media are requesting it, we do not provide an advance determination on loss of nationality. Q I would like to follow up on something you said -- MS. TUTWILER: O.K. Q -- then about the Foreign Minister of Armenia. MS. TUTWILER: Right. Q Has the State Department now made a determination that he may hold the job of Foreign Minister there with impunity? MS. TUTWILER: It's never come up, to be honest with you. That one popped in my mind as an example of American citizens have previously and do currently serve in foreign governments. Q I think if you'll check, Margaret, you'll find that Consular Affairs and Immigration did take a look at Hovannisian's position as Foreign Minister. MS. TUTWILER: Well, then you also know more about this subject than I do, and I will be happy to take a look to see if something like that was looked into. I'm not aware of that of my own knowledge. Q Margaret, let me just take you back, more to the point as to whether this man can actually accomplish anything or do anything as Prime Minister. What is the current reading that the State Department has on the government of Yugoslavia, as such? As the Prime Minister, do we believe he has any power? MS. TUTWILER: Mr. Panic? Q Yes. MS. TUTWILER: Whether it's Mr. Panic -- Q Or anybody else. MS. TUTWILER: -- or it's some other individual, I don't think I'm in a position to judge for you right today, or here -- I know I'm not -- of whether, under the current government that's been formulated in Belgrade, the Prime Minister has or does not have -- what his portfolio encompasses. Number one, I don't know it; and number two, I'm not sure we would be the best, in this current situation, to make a judgment of that. Q Well, we have been, for example, saying that Slobodan Milosevic has been responsible for many of the things that have been happening in the country, so we must therefore assume that he has the predominance of power in Serbia. So does the government of Yugoslavia have any power or influence, in our view? MS. TUTWILER: Have any influence on what? Q On its own country -- on the events that are currently on-going? MS. TUTWILER: Secretary Baker answered a variation of this question yesterday. I believe it might have been Barry's. To my knowledge, we have referred to this, or I have consistently -- and I believe the Secretary has -- as the Belgrade leadership. I'm not aware that the leadership that we're all referring to is not currently up and running in Belgrade. No one has done any predictions, including the Secretary, most recently yesterday. I think he was asked a question about the number of demonstrations that have been held in Belgrade over the last ten days, predictions on what is internally going on inside that government and inside that country. But are they still operating? I can't see how you could draw a conclusion that they weren't. Q All I'm thinking of is, here's a man who is saying he wants to bring an end to the fighting as soon as possible, he wants to turn the country into a democracy, he wants to turn it into a privatized, free enterprise operation. And one would assume that if we thought he had chance, we would say, three cheers. But, on the other hand, if we don't think he has a prayer, then we don't say anything. MS. TUTWILER: The stance we're taking on Mr. Panic is that we do not endorse or support or have any views about his serving as Prime Minister. It was entirely a decision that he took. Q Did anybody talk to him from the U.S. Government? MS. TUTWILER: From the U.S. Government? Q Well, I don't mean a technician. I mean, did anybody speak to him? Barrie is asking you -- you've made it clear he's not your candidate. But have you had an opportunity -- taken the opportunity to tell him what you'd like to see happen in Yugoslavia? MS. TUTWILER: Because I can't remember, I don't know if a U.S. Government official has met with him. What I basically think you're asking me is on the political side. Q Oh, yeah, I don't mean in a technical sense. MS. TUTWILER: But I want to be honest and straightforward with you. I am aware that because he had to receive this license that, I believe, it is his lawyers who have talked to our lawyers concerning the United Nations sanctions that are currently in effect and this license that he would need. Q That only concerns his own -- MS. TUTWILER: Correct. On the political side of this, I just cannot remember, honestly, if he has requested a meeting here with any individuals. And if there was such a request, if we met with him, I'll find out for you from EUR. I just don't know. Q Margaret, there's a distinction between "citizenship" and "passport." If he's going to be the Foreign Minister of a foreign country, is he going to be able to -- MS. TUTWILER: He'll be a Prime Minister. Q Or Prime Minister. Is he going to be able to travel on an American passport to do his country's business? This is not citizenship. This is passport. MS. TUTWILER: I understand. I don't have an answer to that question. Q Well, were you using those two terms interchangeably -- citizenship and passport -- when you responded? MS. TUTWILER: To be honest with you, this morning, when I was learning in greater detail about this situation, it didn't occur to me to ask about his passport. I will be happy to ask the experts on passports -- or the lawyers -- your question on, "Does he travel on two passports, one passport, which passport, etc." I don't know. Q Excuse me. President Mitterrand of France has invited Secretary Baker to come to Europe ahead of the summit this weekend to discuss the Uruguay Round. Can you tell us if you've actually received this invitation and either rejected it or accepted it? MS. TUTWILER: Your statement is the first I've heard of such an invitation. Q Margaret, can we go back to the airlift just for one second? You said that U.N. personnel will be doing all the offloading of planes? MS. TUTWILER: At the airport? Q Yeah. MS. TUTWILER: It's my understanding, logistically, of how that has worked. Q Okay. So U.S. personnel won't have to get off the plane; there won't be loadmasters taking the equipment off? MS. TUTWILER: I can't answer if -- my understanding is, as you know, General MacKenzie is there with the U.N. peacekeeping forces at the airport; that Boutros-Ghali, this morning, has announced that they're going to be augmented by some other composition. Then you have the UNHCR logistical people. I can't answer for you, "Is an American co-pilot or an American technical person going to actually step out of his airplane and help?" I just don't know. Q But will there be a dozen or so American enlisted men there to unload the plane? MS. TUTWILER: Am I aware of any U.S. advance people who are being sent in to help? Q Not necessarily advanced. They can go in with the plane, too. MS. TUTWILER: On either situation, I'm unaware of it. I just physically don't know how the United States unloads an airplane -- if our people sit in the cockpit or if they have people who help. I just don't know. Maybe Pete Williams, who is briefing today, could answer that question. Q Since the siege has been for over three months and the -- MS. TUTWILER: Since the what? Q The siege over this area and the lack of food and supplies. How will the food be distributed? Since it will not be dropped by helicopters or planes, like it happened, for instance, with the Kurds in Iraq, is it going to be that the NGOs are going to take over distributing the food? How will the food be distributed -- MS. TUTWILER: I believe that we have continuously said that in this particular situation, our government did not think that an effective means of getting food in there was an air drop. No one is talking about an air drop today. What we're doing is -- an airport has been opened -- there are relief flights that are being scheduled right now and are going to continue to land all weekend, and I don't know for how many days. As I just said, on the ground, there are the U.N. personnel organizing exactly how to get it into the city of Sarajevo. Local NGOs are going to be assisting the U.N. logistical types who are there in Sarajevo. They're arriving, as I was told momentarily, to help distribute the food throughout Sarajevo. Q If I can go to Mr. Panic. You said the Foreign Minister of Armenia is from California. Has he applied for, or did he ask for -- given up his U.S. citizenship? MS. TUTWILER: Not that I know of. But Mr. Dancy seems to think that Consular Affairs here had some types of talks with him that I said I'd look into. I have no knowledge of them. Q So any dual citizen can work or can act in another country without even denouncing his citizenship? MS. TUTWILER: Under United States law, as I said, yes, absolutely, that we have precedence for this. Americans do serve, have served, I guess will continue to serve. It is totally within our United States law to do such a thing. Q Margaret, has the United Nations requested any additional U.S. flights -- humanitarian flights? MS. TUTWILER: Not as of the time I came to this briefing. Q Margaret, to go back to -- MS. TUTWILER: Excuse me. But I fully anticipate that they, of course, will, as this continues to go on. They're calling on a number of countries today, all of which, it's my information, have all agreed to send the aircraft that had been requested. Q Can you tell us how many, without saying -- MS. TUTWILER: Countries? About six or seven. Q To go back to the GATT thing, have there been any suggestions that there be a last-ditch meeting to try to work out a GATT agreement? MS. TUTWILER: There are always any number of options that are discussed. And, yes, those types of options have been discussed. There has been nothing that has been, from any government, including President Mitterrand, an official request for the Secretary of State, please come to anywhere in Europe. But throughout -- and you'll remember -- I think Barry asked me several weeks ago -- there's a rumor flying around, the Secretary is going over to get engaged in the Uruguay Round in GATT. I said much to what I'm saying right now. That rumor, I'm aware, is out there. I am aware that there have been conversations internally in our government and with others in other governments about such an option. But there honestly -- there is nothing that is official on either end, as of today. There's really nothing. Q Will the Secretary be taking off with the President Saturday night? Will he be making -- MS. TUTWILER: Yes. Q -- all three stops with him? MS. TUTWILER: Yes. Q Will he have any schedule of his own? MS. TUTWILER: He has very little -- Q Other places? MS. TUTWILER: No. Q And will he come home with the President? MS. TUTWILER: Yes. Q He's not going to Sarajevo? MS. TUTWILER: No. Q Another subject? Q A last question on Sarajevo: Are there any plans for opening a land corridor between Split and Sarajevo? There was -- MS. TUTWILER: You really have to ask the U.N. They're the ones who are coordinating this. I'm aware of that plan. I'm aware of that option. I don't know where they are on it. Q Yugoslavia -- one question: Are you now operating under the assumption that you will not require a second U.N. Security Council resolution to continue this process? MS. TUTWILER: I'll do what the President always does. I don't ever like to say never and I don't like to rule anything out. Who knows? Q Has the United Nations cleared up -- separate from a use of force authorization -- cleared up the rules of engagement for whatever kind of troops go into Sarajevo? MS. TUTWILER: You have to ask the U.N.

[Macedonia: US Policy Position]

Q Another Yugoslav matter: Could you clarify for us whether the U.S. will follow the recent EC decision on the Republic of Macedonia -- recognition of it? MS. TUTWILER: On Macedonia, the United States -- I'll be happy to restate our policy, which we've stated any number of times here from this podium. It has not changed. The EC stated on June 28 that it was prepared to recognize Macedonia under a different name. The Macedonian President has criticized the EC statement and called for national unity. The United States endorses his efforts to maintain calm and stability and to lead his people to full independence through this negotiating process. The United States continues to support the EC in its efforts to resolve this impasse. We are prepared to support any solution which is acceptable to the EC, Greece and Macedonia. As we have said many times before -- and I would refer you to our public transcripts -- Greece is a friend and ally of the United States. We take seriously Greek concerns regarding its security. We have offered our help to both the governments of Greece and Macedonia to work for an expeditious resolution of the recognition issue. Q So you're not endorsing the EC decision on the question of the name? MS. TUTWILER: I'm going to continue to do what we have done throughout this. Not only have we done it from this podium, I would refer you to the public comments of the Secretary of State when he was most recently in Brussels when asked this question. I would refer you to our public record. We will continue to work with the EC, to work with Greece, to work with Macedonia. We have said any number of times -- I have from this podium -- that Greece is an old ally and friend of the United States, and that we take seriously Greek concerns. Q Margaret, do you have a readout on the Deputy Secretary's meeting yesterday with a Serbian opposition leader? MS. TUTWILER: I'm sorry, I didn't even know that Larry (Eagleburger) had such a meeting, and so I don't have a readout. I'll be happy to ask him. Q Can we go to another subject? MS. TUTWILER: It suits me. Q July 1, according to my recollection, was supposed to be the deadline for the three other former Soviet nuclear states to transfer all of their nuclear weapons back inside the border of Russia. Did they meet that deadline? MS. TUTWILER: I don't know. I haven't been into arms control matters, to be honest with you, since President Yeltsin was here. I'll be happy to check it out for you. Q Do you have any reaction or a comment to a statement by Hanan Ashrawi a couple of days ago saying that the bilateral talks will be held in Rome the third week of this month? MS. TUTWILER: No. Q Do you have any thoughts about when they will be held, or are you waiting for the Israeli Cabinet to be formed? MS. TUTWILER: We're waiting for a government, as you know, in Israel to be formed, and we have refrained from discussing any subjects while that is taking place. Q On a different subject: Do you have any comment on the report of a coup attempt in Iraq? MS. TUTWILER: No. Q Did you see the report? MS. TUTWILER: I really don't have anything for you on that subject. Q Will you later? MS. TUTWILER: I'll look into it. Q On a related matter: Can you comment on reports that U.S. troops were in Iraq in '88, '89, helping -- '87 -- helping out in their war against -- MS. TUTWILER: I hadn't heard about that. Q -- in Iraq, helping on their against Iran? MS. TUTWILER: I have no idea. Q Margaret, you may not have this right there, but I think you might be able to get an answer. Will the Secretary of State or the President sign CFE I(a) in Helsinki? MS. TUTWILER: I don't know, Barry. Q Who is going to sign the agreement on troop levels? MS. TUTWILER: I don't know. Let me just find out for you. I have no idea. Q One question on nuclear testing: Does the United States ever test for any reasons other than for safety and reliability? MS. TUTWILER: Not to my knowledge. Q Margaret, on Iraq, another question: Is Washington aware of any large-scale smuggling into Iraq from Syria or from Iran or from Turkey? You have been picking on Jordan lately for smuggling goods into Iraq. Do you have any indication that the same pattern of illegal trade is going on from other neighbors of Iraq? MS. TUTWILER: Without acknowledging the countries that you named, which I won't do, I will tell you that we have no information that any substantial leakage is taking place across Iraq's other borders, although we have reports that some small-scale smuggling is going on. Q This issue -- you've been asking Jordan to place some observers -- United Nations observers and others -- and I think you stopped some assistance and then maneuvers and other things. What was the price for complying or responding to your request by having Jordan's active participation in enforcing the blockade against Iraq? What are the things that you have put to Jordan on the table in order to make up for the losses, if you can? MS. TUTWILER: To make up for the losses? Q For the losses that will incur from not having that commerce? MS. TUTWILER: I'm not aware that we have -- if I understand the formulation of your question correctly -- that we have put anything on the table to make up for -- your characterization -- "losses." As you're aware, Secretary Baker refrained -- again, I think it might have been Barry's question yesterday -- from, or he declined to provide any details about our current high-level talks with the Jordanian Government, and I'm not in a position to do so today. Q Jordan has rejected completely your request to try to comply with your request -- MS. TUTWILER: I'm sorry, what? Q Jordan rejected your request, or your formulation, to respond to placing international observers or United Nations observers because of the fact that there is a hardship in Jordan. I'm asking this -- I'm not playing the devil's advocate, but I'm asking, what's the price for if they will comply? I understand that their assistance was cut off and the maneuvers were cut off and money is not flowing there. So what's the price? MS. TUTWILER: I'm going to continue to refrain from engaging with you in this conversation, as the Secretary refrained yesterday from engaging on this. He said, or confirmed, that we have had considerable dialogue with the Government of Jordan at the highest levels on the ways in which we might help Jordan carry out its commitment to implement sanctions enforcement effectively. He declined to go into any details when asked, and I'm not going to today. Q Margaret, in your statement, you talked about there not being any substantial leakage taking place on other borders. Are we to infer from that that there is substantial leakage taking place on the Jordanian/Iraqi border? MS. TUTWILER: The adjective that I would prefer to use is that we are concerned about leakage from and through Jordan, which is the main source for embargoed Iraqi imports. Q When and if -- I guess it's just really "when" -- the peace talks resume, will the Secretary attend in Rome? MS. TUTWILER: I have no idea. He hasn't in the past, Barry. I'm not being flip, but it hasn't come up. Q I wondered if he thought it needed a new push forward? MS. TUTWILER: It hasn't come up. I would just be making it up out of whole cloth. The issue has not arisen. Q Operations are underway. A date is circled and everything. MS. TUTWILER: Well, then, you certainly know something that I don't. Q Even the Italian Government -- call the Italian Government. July 28. MS. TUTWILER: Really? That's kind of interesting. I have no knowledge of that date at all, or any date. Thank you all. (Press briefing concluded 12:35 p.m.)