US Department of State Daily Briefing #96: Monday, 6/22/92

Tutwiler Source: State Department Spokesman Margaret Tutwiler Description: Washington, DC Date: Jun, 22 19926/22/92 Category: Briefings Region: E/C Europe, MidEast/North Africa, East Asia, Subsaharan Africa Country: Yugoslavia (former), Bosnia-Herzegovina, Serbia-Montenegro, Georgia, Moldova, South Africa, Philippines, Libya Subject: Regional/Civil Unrest, Military Affairs, CSCE, Mideast Peace Process, Arms Control, Trade/Economics, Development/Relief Aid 12:12 P.M. (ON THE RECORD UNLESS OTHERWISE NOTED) MS. TUTWILER: One, just to remind you, which I know you all know, Secretary Baker will testify before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on Tuesday, which is tomorrow, June 23, at 10:00 a.m. The meeting will be held in Room 419 Dirksen. The subject of the testimony is "START Ratification," and you know there will be no State Department briefing.

[Former Soviet Union: Assistance]

May I give you an update on some of the humanitarian things that we are doing to aid the former republics of the former Soviet Union? AID has completed the first phase of an emergency immunization program in Central Asia. The program was announced by the Secretary at the Coordinating Conference last January. By October of this year, AID will have immunized over half a million children. The program will prevent, in our opinion, between 4,400 and 10,000 possible deaths. Over the past week, Operation Provide Hope II completed food and medical shipments to 10 locations in the New Independent States: 6 in Russia, 2 in Ukraine, and one each in Belarus and Moldova. The food shipments were valued at over $2 million, the medical shipments at nearly $6 million. Thirdly, an Air Force C-141 departed yesterday from McGuire Air Force Base in New Jersey en route to Tbilisi, Georgia. The plane carried 194,000 vials of insulin and a half-million syringes urgently requested by the Georgian Government. Those of you who traveled with us to Tbilisi will recall this is something that Chairman Shevardnadze specifically raised on more than one occasion with Secretary Baker, so we have followed through on it, as the Secretary said there at Tbilisi. In the area of technical assistance, the United States Government has provided $2 million worth of new computer and other office equipment to the Russian Ministry of Privatization. Also this week, the President of OPIC, Ambassador Fred Zeder, is leading an investors trade mission to Moscow and St. Petersburg. He will be accompanied by 44 United States companies sending representatives on this mission. Thanks. Q Margaret, do you have anything regarding the use of Russian forces in Moldova? MS. TUTWILER: Not a lot, Barry, because the situation there remains very confused. As you know, there has been fighting that's been occurring around the city of Bendery, the only Moldovan city west of the Dniester River controlled largely by separatist elements. Large numbers of civilians have fled the city and casualties have been heavy. Reports claim that the fighting involved Moldovan police and regular army forces and separatist guard units as well as elements of the Russian 14th Army stationed in Trans-Dniester. The United States calls upon all parties to the conflict to demonstrate restraint, desist from all acts of violence immediately, and resume a process of good faith negotiation leading toward a peaceful resolution of the situation consistent with CSCE principles. We believe that the Moldovan and Transnistrian authorities should seek a negotiated, peaceful political solution within the framework of an independent and sovereign Moldova, which ensures that the rights of ethnic minorities are protected in practice as well as in law. We recognize President Yeltsin's concern for the safety of ethnic Russians. At the same time, we encourage the Russian Government to enter into discussions with Moldova aimed at implementing President Yeltsin's earlier agreement to withdraw the 14th Army from the area. We understand that a meeting of Foreign Ministers of Russia, Moldova, Ukraine and Romania is scheduled for today to discuss the situation. We hope they will provide support for accomplishing these objectives. Q Let me try, then three quickies. MS. TUTWILER: Okay. Q The United States then verifies -- forget reports -- we all read reports. The United States knows that the Russian forces are involved in the fighting, number one. Does the United States have a position whether Russian forces should be involved in that fighting? And number three, I could read between your lines, but I'd rather you say so. This Russian group that resists the fact that most of the people there are oriented toward Romania and speak Romanian, the United States thinks they have legitimate rights but thinks they should not be separated from Moldova; is that what you're saying? They should be part of Moldova, but in some way their identity respected; is that a correct reading of that nuanced statement you just read? MS. TUTWILER: You've asked me a lot here. Let me see if I can recount it for you. Number one, concerning the Russian 14th Army, I've very clearly used the phrase "elements." I started off by saying that it was a very confused situation there, and so we purposely, for a reason, chose to use the phraseology "elements of." Q The United States knows that Russian forces are engaged in fighting in Moldova -- elements? MS. TUTWILER: "Elements of" -- Q If I could I follow-up -- MS. TUTWILER: Excuse me. Let me finish all of his questions, please. So elements of, Barry, on -- Q You mean some? MS. TUTWILER: Correct, and then there always are the questions in any situation -- without trying to answer this one of who is taking orders from whom -- are people out freelancing on their own? Are people acting under direct orders from where? So those types of questions are valid questions, in our minds, and it is truly a confused situation there. We also pointed out that President Yeltsin has said publicly that the 14th Army would be moved out of the area. I took note that the Foreign Minister of Russia is meeting today with the Foreign Minister of Moldova. I can't remember your second and third questions. Q Well, you sort of covered the second -- whether the U.S. approves of their intervention. MS. TUTWILER: Okay. Q All right. The third thing would be, could you iron out some of that nuanced language there and say whether the State Department believes these Russian-oriented people are entitled to what? -- recognition of their self -- MS. TUTWILER: I understand. Q -- of their identity, but not a state -- it seems to be what you're saying. MS. TUTWILER: What I hope I was saying -- what I intended to say -- is that those types of issues are to be addressed by the people there, and that we will support whatever the people who live there decide, through negotiation and peacefully, to determine it. Q Margaret, as long as we're on nuances, are you saying that the Administration is not sure whether the Russian Army is fighting -- which side the Russian Army is supporting? MS. TUTWILER: No. I'm saying that there is a confused situation on the ground. You keep using the phrase "Russian Army." Barry acknowledges to me, I used the phrase, "elements of." I tried to paint a picture for you. One, I have said it's a confused state, but I don't think that you have -- I know we don't at our fingertips -- categorical evidence that this is 10 or 15 people who went off on their own or these are people who are on direct orders, and those types of questions, as I said earlier, in our minds, are valid types of questions. But, yes, I'm confirming, to the best of our knowledge, elements of the Russian 14th Army stationed in Trans-Dniester were involved, as were all the other groups that I have mentioned. Q Well, there have been reports of defections? MS. TUTWILER: I don't know anything about defections this morning. Q But Yeltsin was -- I'm sorry. Q Just to make clear, the United States is not sure whether these elements are acting on their own or under orders from Moscow; is that the case? MS. TUTWILER: Correct. Q And has the issue been raised at any other level? Has the message that the United States would like to see the Russian Army disengage itself from the conflict? Has that message been raised through any channels? MS. TUTWILER: That was your phraseology. I don't believe that was mine this morning. I have said that the Foreign Ministers of four of these nations are meeting right now today to discuss this. Yes, Secretary Baker has discussed the situation in Moldova; most recently last week with the Foreign Minister of Russia. I don't know whether President Bush and President Yeltsin discussed it. The White House could answer that. Just -- I think it was on Thursday or Friday, the Secretary of State met with the Prime Minister of Moldova. Yes, this situation was discussed. But I'm not aware, to use your phraseology, that we have characterized the situation, as you have inferred in your question to me. Q You made reference to the CSCE principles. Yeltsin and Bush, in their closing statements, made references to using CSCE mechanisms and Russia and the U.S. cooperating through those mechanisms to prevent such conflicts from escalating. Are the U.S. and Russia discussing ways now that the U.S. and Russia can cooperate through the CSCE to prevent this ethnic conflict from escalating? MS. TUTWILER: There may be those types of conversations, Ralph, at an expert level. I'm not aware of, today, something specific and concrete that I can point to to give to you. Q Margaret, similarly, that was one approach to it. Maybe a less polite approach would be, Yeltsin was just here and you folks signed a special arrangement with Russia. They are special friends now, and you're gearing up now for a use of CSCE in trouble spots, a peace-maker operation. The ink isn't dry on the Charter of Friendship, and Russian troops are in Moldova engaged in what seems to be a local problem. Does the U.S. think this is a justified use of Russian force? Moldova is another country. It isn't part of Russia. Does the State Department think that -- even elements -- it's justified for Yeltsin to send elements of his troops into -- when you're just now gearing up to deal with Nagorno-Karabakh, to deal with Yugoslavia, possibly the Crimea -- with all these -- MS. TUTWILER: With Georgia. Q With Georgia -- with all these hot spots, all these controversial areas in a more -- in a European framework; not in a nationalistic way? And Yeltsin has moved his troops in. Does the State Department think that's all right? MS. TUTWILER: It's my understanding that Yeltsin has not moved his troops in, to use your phraseology. The 14th Army has been stationed there. I don't know for how long. Q But they don't belong to Moldova. MS. TUTWILER: But that's quite different. You're sending a signal here of moving from Moscow. They haven't. They're there. Q They're not Moldovan forces. They're Russian forces. MS. TUTWILER: I know that. I've called them the elements of the Russian 14th Army. I have said that our Secretary of State has had -- most recently last week with the Russian leadership and Moldovans -- conversations concerning this situation. I have also said today that we recognize President Yeltsin's concerns for the safety of ethnic Russians. I don't have an overall more pithy statement for you, I guess, than to make it apply to every single, solitary situation. We all are aware that this is still an area that is in a great deal of flux --not only this but all the instances that you mentioned to me -- and that we are all -- us, the Russians, a number of countries around the world -- trying to do what we can to make sure that CSCE principles and that these situations, hopefully, for the innocent people that are involved, are resolved in a negotiated political context and not through force and violence. Q Another follow-up: Is it the U.S. view that Russian -- that Yeltsin ought to withdraw the Russian 14th Army from Moldova sooner rather than later? Has the U.S. expressed a view to Russia about what it should do with its troops there? MS. TUTWILER: I'm not aware, Ralph, that the United States has gotten to that level of detail. The United States obviously is aware of the situation there. We are aware that the Russian 14th Army is there. But whether we have -- that I have any knowledge of -- taken that detailed a stance, I'm not aware of it. Q The U.S. takes that stand in a number of other places. The U.S. has talked about withdrawing forces from Poland. There were discussions about doing so from Germany. There are discussions in other parts of the world about withdrawal of all foreign forces from certain places. Does the U.S. have a view on withdrawal? MS. TUTWILER: I stated it earlier. I said we encourage the Russian Government to enter into discussions with Moldova aimed at implementing President Yeltsin's earlier agreement to withdraw the 14th Army from the area. Your question to me, in my mind, is, "Have we given or suggested a specific timeframe?" That is what I have no knowledge of. Q Margaret, yesterday, Yeltsin went beyond just voicing concern for the safety of Russians. He actually threatened force to protect them. Do you have any specific response to his threatening language? MS. TUTWILER: I don't have anything additional than what I've already said this morning. Q Well, you're saying they're already involved -- elements are already involved. So doesn't that answer the question? MS. TUTWILER: Elements that were involved, it's my understanding, were involved in the violence that we all are aware of that went on this weekend in this particular city of Bendery. Mark's question is a statement that President Yeltsin made. I would interpret it as "future-oriented" concerning Russians that are there. I don't connect the two, even though it's the same region. My comments have been about not only elements of the 14th Russian Army. I also said Moldovan police, regular army forces and separatist unit guards. So I list four people who were involved in the violence this weekend. We don't have an actual casualty figure. Many of your colleagues in the press have reported as many as up to 200 dead. We cannot confirm that or say that it's not true, but that's a lot of violence over the weekend. Q When did you say the Foreign Ministers were meeting? MS. TUTWILER: I didn't. We don't have that for you. I asked myself this morning and they didn't have it, so I'll get it for you. Q Margaret, new topic? MS. TUTWILER: Suits me.

[South Africa: Relations with the US]

Q South Africa: Is there anything further today to add to Secretary Baker's statements yesterday? He seemed to imply that he believes lower-level government elements might have been involved in ordering the Zulus. And, also, how does this situation affect U.S.-South African relations? MS. TUTWILER: It doesn't change -- to answer your second question first -- U.S.-South African relations. I don't know why you would ask me how that would change our relations with South Africa. It does not. I don't have a whole lot to add to what Secretary Baker said yesterday other than a few facts that he did not get into yesterday. Our Embassy in Pretoria has been in contact with the government, the African National Congress, and a broad range of other opposition leaders. At the same time, we have underscored to the government the urgent need to bring the attackers of this particularly horrible crime to justice. We are urging all sides to come together to end the violence, for all parties to get on with the urgent business of negotiating a just and democratic future for South Africa. Our Embassy today announced a grant of $250,000 to the International Red Cross in South Africa to assist the victims of violence in the country. Part of these funds will be used to assist the victims of the Boipatong tragedy and their families. It's our understanding also, Connie, concerning President Mandela's statements that we note that the ANC has not withdrawn from participation in the CODESA -- which, as you know, is the Convention for a Democratic South Africa -- working groups; and the ANC's National Executive Committee plans to hold a meeting tomorrow to discuss the future of these negotiations. We have said before negotiations through the CODESA process are essential to resolving the political crisis facing South Africa and to restoring a climate of peace essential to the long-term stability of the country. There is simply no viable alternative for addressing the underlying causes of this violence. Q Could you look a bit more into his response on that follow-up question yesterday, because it seemed like he wanted to imply a bit more and I just wondered if he had anything to add? MS. TUTWILER: I think that's an overread on your part, to be honest with you -- Q I found -- when he said it was confusing -- but it might have been just because they kept jumping from thing to thing. So if he had anything else to add to it, I'd love to hear it. MS. TUTWILER: I don't think that I will. Q Margaret, the GATT -- the Uruguay Round is getting to be "Uruguay Century." Does the Secretary see any need, or is he considering the possibility of a Foreign Ministers meeting so that the seven meeting in Munich can have positive results? Is he considering meeting with Foreign Ministers in advance of Munich? MS. TUTWILER: That has been rumored for a number of weeks. There is no formal proposal from anyone, that I'm aware of, for the Secretary or other Foreign Ministers to get together. I guess, Barry, if it came up and he thought that it would be helpful, of course he, you know, would actively consider such a request. But there isn't such a request. Under Secretary Zoellick is just back from a Sherpa's meeting over the weekend. I personally have not had an opportunity to visit with him this morning, so my information is as current as of Friday. If there's some request, I don't know about it. Q You wouldn't initiate that? He would wait for a request? MS. TUTWILER: I guess we could. Anything's possible, but I don't -- Q You've got a weekend coming up. There's a chance to do some traveling. (Laughter) MS. TUTWILER: Yes. Why not? Q You know, it's some holiday; isn't it? MS. TUTWILER: Exactly. Q But it's still the week -- MS. TUTWILER: Well, maybe the Fourth of July we will be traveling. Q Well, I know, that's already locked in, so -- MS. TUTWILER: That's right. This is something that has been out there; and it comes at us both through rumor through the United States, to be honest with you, and through unnamed European sources. But there's nothing that is firm right now. And I guess that if it was determined here that, you know, initiating such a meeting would be helpful, then they have, you know, the prerogative to do so. But I'm not aware that anybody's gone that far yet. Q Setting aside for a moment the question of whether there's a Foreign Ministers meeting or not, what's the U.S. view of the urgency -- if any -- of dealing with GATT, or coming up with a solution before the G-7 Meeting? MS. TUTWILER: To be honest with you, Ralph, this is not a subject that I am well versed in. I know how important, obviously, the GATT Round is. Q The timing is important. MS. TUTWILER: I know that the Secretary of State has worked very hard on this; the President of the United States has. I'm not aware, in my mind, that our Government has ever gone out and said, "You have a week left, or l0 days left." So that's what I'm ducking. Q Margaret, can we talk about Yugoslavia, please? MS. TUTWILER: Yes. Q It has been our policy to be concerned about the humanitarian situation there, but to believe that the U.N. could not act until there was a viable cease-fire in place -- MS. TUTWILER: Yes. Q -- in Sarajevo. Clearly, there is still no viable cease-fire in place with more people being killed again today. Are we moving in the direction of attempting any humanitarian efforts, in the absence of a cease-fire? MS. TUTWILER: None that I have any knowledge of. Q Margaret, can you say anything about the Lemay memo? Do you know what I'm talking about? October l3th, l989, memo -- concerning uses to which -- MS. TUTWILER: Oh, that. No. Q Nothing, huh? MS. TUTWILER: I haven't ever read the memo. My knowledge of it is next to nil. And, no, I don't have anything. My understanding is he is scheduled to testify this week? Is it today or tomorrow? Q Tomorrow. MS. TUTWILER: Tomorrow? So I will just refer you to his public testimony. Q Margaret, do you have independent information on the explosion that's happened near to Tripoli, Libya? MS. TUTWILER: An explosion? Q Yes. MS. TUTWILER: I don't know about an explosion, no. Sorry.

[Yugoslavia: Situation Update]

Q Do you have anything on the situation further in Yugoslavia? MS. TUTWILER: An update? Q Yes. MS. TUTWILER: Yes. Q Specifically, can you confirm these reports of massacres that took place in the past few days, reported over the weekend? MS. TUTWILER: I don't have anything specific on new reports of massacres. There have been reports throughout this tragedy of massacres. There have been reports, as we've commented on, as you know, of -- their phraseology -- "ethnic cleansing," taking people out of their homes, door-to-door. But I don't have anything specifically new on massacres over the weekend. But I can give you an update on the situation and the convoys. Serbian shelling and heavy fighting continued in Sarajevo over the weekend. Serbian shelling and fighting continues today, with especially heavy attacks in districts near the airport. We have reports that in Dobrinja, a suburb of Sarajevo adjacent to the airport, Serbian forces are systematically destroying apartment buildings, floor by floor, with tank fire. Because of heavy fighting in the streets, residents have no way to escape this area. This morning a Serbian mortar round killed three civilians in the main downtown area of Sarajevo. The United States unreservedly condemns this wanton murder of innocent men, women and children. As we have said before, we hold the civilian and military authorities in Belgrade largely responsible. We understand that on Saturday, the U.N. peace- keeping personnel were wounded in a mortar attack as they returned to their headquarters from the airport. Serbian forces continue to control Sarajevo's airport, which remains closed. The food situation continues to be critical in many areas of Sarajevo. We have reports of sometimes heavy fighting, Serbian shelling, and JNA air attacks in other areas of Bosnia. The Bosnian Health Care Crisis Headquarters reports that in Bosnia overall, 7,200 people have died; 25,000 are wounded; and 30,000 are missing. We note that the Anti-War Center of Sarajevo, as well as some other human rights organizations, are reporting the number dead in Bosnia at between 30 and 50 thousand. We understand that those estimates add the number missing to those known dead. Our judgment is that the official Bosnian figure of approximately 7,200 dead is conservatively low; but because the fighting precludes our ability to gather information, we cannot give you an approximate number. On convoys: The 40 tons of United States food we sent to Zagreb on May l6th is now all in Bosnia. About 7 tons went to Mostar on June ll-l2, and was distributed through the private charitable organization, Children's Embassy. Six to eight tons went with UNHCR to a town near Sarajevo on June l6th; and about 27 tons went to a village between Split -- which is in Croatia -- and Mostar, and was distributed through the Red Crescent. We understand that the UNHCR has no new convoys planned but will decide soon on when to send more. We also understand that the ICRC reached agreement with the Bosnian Government on the resumption of ICRC activities. We expect the ICRC in Geneva will decide shortly whether to resume its deliveries. A convoy of "Doctors Without Frontiers" left Split for Sarajevo today and should reach Sarajevo either today or tomorrow. It includes five trucks with UNICEF baby food and two trucks with medical supplies. Two UNICEF convoys, which were to have left last week from Belgrade and Zagreb to Sarajevo, left on Saturday. We are awaiting confirmation from UNICEF of their arrival. International relief organizations -- including UNHCR, UNICEF, and private relief groups -- continue to send smaller convoys of relief supplies to areas throughout Bosnia. Q Margaret, where does the United States stand in its review of other steps and options that can be taken? Is that process still going on? MS. TUTWILER: It's still alive and well, and I don't have any additional to announce for you today. Q Margaret, looking ahead a little bit -- Q I'm sorry -- on this subject? What's the U.S. view of a United Nations use of force resolution in dealing with former Yugoslavia? Does the U.S. think such a resolution would be a good idea? MS. TUTWILER: I haven't heard anyone, to be honest with you, Ralph, express a view on that; and I'll be happy to ask. Q On the President's travels next month to Warsaw, Helsinki, and Munich -- MS. TUTWILER: Yes. Q -- is the Secretary going with him to all three places? MS. TUTWILER: Yes. Q Is he? And does he plan any side travel? MS. TUTWILER: He plans no side travel at this time; and, yes, he is planning on accompanying the President on all three stops. Q Do you have any idea, because I would suspect some thought is given to it, how quickly after Israel holds its election the Secretary will become -- you know, stir this thing up again and maybe go to Israel and meet either the hold- over government or the new government, whatever government is there? Would that be something he'd want to do pretty soon after the election? MS. TUTWILER: I haven't heard him express a view on that Barry, to be honest with you. I'll be happy to ask him. Q Margaret, do you have any comment on the story about a change of mind with the Administration with regard to the Iraqi situation -- how the Saddam Husayn regime would be toppled or not? I'm sure you're familiar with the story. MS. TUTWILER: The story that the Secretary was asked about yesterday, which he refused to comment on? I don't have a comment either. Q Margaret, last Friday the United States detonated a nuclear device in Las Vegas. Did Yeltsin and President Bush discuss that last week? MS. TUTWILER: I have no idea. Q What did it do to the gambling in Las Vegas? (Laughter) MS. TUTWILER: I know nothing about what you're asking. So not only do I not know whether the Presidents discussed it; I don't even know about the event. Q All right. Then the follow-up question is: Did anyone inside the Beltway know that in Las Vegas they would be detonating a nuclear device 24 hours after the Russian President -- MS. TUTWILER: I have no idea. Q -- (inaudible) these historic arms negotiations? MS. TUTWILER: I have absolutely no idea. I don't even know if what you're asking me has taken place or took place, so I reserve on any comments because I honestly have zero knowledge about this. Q Could you give us something on it, addressing that in some form? MS. TUTWILER: I'll see. Q In the Philippines -- MS. TUTWILER: Yes, sir. Q -- they've now certified that Fidel Ramos has won the election. MS. TUTWILER: Correct. Q Does the U.S. think it can work with General Ramos and -- MS. TUTWILER: We certainly look forward to working with him. We welcome this reaffirmation of democracy in the Philippines, which is a credit to the Aquino administration, the Commission on Elections, the Philippine military and police and the Philippine people. We look forward to working with President-elect Ramos and his administration on a variety of important issues. Q At the same time, the aid cuts have taken effect for Fiscal Year '92, in which there was a rather -- very large cut in Philippine aid. How do you square that with looking forward to working with Ramos? MS. TUTWILER: I don't know that our relationship, Don, was built on aid. We have a longstanding relationship with the Philippines. We have any number of things that we discuss with the Philippines. And so I can't -- don't have a better way to answer you than to say our relationship with the Philippines is not based on aid. I believe a number of countries last year -- I cannot remember them all off the top of my head -- took cuts. And right now, as you know, we're working with the Congress for this Fiscal Year's aid levels, and that isn't resolved yet either. Q So you're saying basically -- are you saying that there's no connection between the aid cuts and the Ramos elections and so forth, in the Philippines? MS. TUTWILER: Well, I can't speak to why Mr. Ramos won the election in the Philippines, but I don't think -- I don't know -- I'm not that familiar with it -- that he ran on a campaign of United States' aid or non-aid, and that the United States has a relationship built with the Philippines on a number of factors. I don't believe that aid is the number one factor of our longstanding relationship with the Philippines. Q It's not the number one factor, but the fact is you have at this particular moment -- cutting aid to the Philippines by two-thirds is a rather remarkable activity at the time when they're electing a new government. MS. TUTWILER: And? Q Well, what comment do you have? MS. TUTWILER: None, other than the ones I've just tried to articulate to you. Q To follow up, I think Don's point is well taken. They had planned to spend X number of dollars on aid to the Philippines, and they lost two thirds of it. In fact, it was reprogrammed elsewhere. And I'd just -- if you could take the question as to why the Philippines did not get the money to which it was entitled under the original plan, it would be useful. MS. TUTWILER: Uh-huh. Q Margaret, another question on the Philippines: Now that there is a new government there, is there any interest in the United States looking again at the base -- the whole base question? MS. TUTWILER: I don't have a response for you on that. That would be best answered at the Pentagon. I don't know. I haven't heard anyone say that that is going to be re-raised, but I'd defer to the Pentagon. Q Margaret, this might come up tomorrow. I tried -- we tried last Friday, following up the Secretary's remarks on MacNeil/Lehrer to find out -- even though he's dubious there would be a new arms control agreement in the next five or six years with so much to do -- whether there would be any negotiating with the Russians for another round of cuts. And an answer came back talking about the space talks. You know, that's only part of the picture. Can I try again? I don't think -- I don't know that you have it up there, but the -- MS. TUTWILER: I don't have anything additional than what the Secretary said. Q Is there any format? Is there -- I mean, people like Biden might say it again tomorrow -- MS. TUTWILER: They might. Q And Yeltsin certainly says he's willing to cut much further. I don't know if the U.S. is willing. MS. TUTWILER: And I think that -- Q It sounds like Baker isn't. It sounds like he thinks they've gone far enough, and there's plenty to do for the next five or six years. MS. TUTWILER: That's what I heard him say. Q That's right. MS. TUTWILER: And I also heard him on -- again, get his transcript -- is that this is -- there is a lot of work to do just to accomplish this. He also, as I recall, specifically discussed the expense associated with this; that this is very expensive to dismantle all these arms and destroy them. And so I'm not personally aware. I understand -- it's interesting to pocket what you have today and say, "Show me what's next." But this does not detract, in my mind, from this was -- and many of you and your colleagues have written -- an historical, unprecedented achievement that was made just last week. And, yes, there are a lot of details to work out about it, and we're going to be working -- as you know, there is a possibility of two time frames, and that is directed by, as you know, expense of whether you can do it in the year 2003 and 2000. But whether they are going to -- as you know also, I think it was back in February, the two Foreign Ministers said this is not going to be arms control as usual. We are not going to have armies of people in Geneva and in Vienna and weeks and years worth of negotiations. This is going to be done at the highest political levels. And it was, and you get something done in five months. So I don't envision -- and I think he said that -- maybe I'm wrong, but I know it's the view of this government -- all of a sudden going back to a system we've gone beyond in many respects. Q No. He said he didn't see in the next five or six years a new agreement, and as he has in the past, he spoke as if the U.S. is -- arms control has turned a corner. You don't need 40 people in Geneva -- MS. TUTWILER: Correct. Q You know, you can work these things out with a friendly government almost man-to-man, head-to-head. MS. TUTWILER: Which is what he did. Q Which is what -- that and the fact that there are people who think you still have a whole lot more nuclear weapons than you need, especially since you don't have an enemy out there. And those kinds of people are wondering if we're going to have any further negotiations for cuts. He didn't rule them out, but I can't get an answer from State whether State is ruling out any further negotiations. MS. TUTWILER: Well, he represents State. Q Busy as you are, historic as the agreements are, and everybody's got their hat in the air, and, you know -- and thousands of weapons will be gone. But that doesn't take care of the whole thing. I don't know what your position is on testing any more. The United States is the only holdout to a ban -- only major holdout to a test -- MS. TUTWILER: I don't believe our policy's changed on that. Q No need to ban tests yet. You still have to test nuclear weapons? MS. TUTWILER: I'm not aware of a change in policy. Q O.K. And are you abandoning further negotiations? MS. TUTWILER: I will just simply refer you to -- when you said the Secretary didn't shut it out, that that is our policy. And I think that he articulated why, at this time, we are concentrating on -- there is an awful lot of work to do; that this was -- with all our hats in the air, as you say -- this was significant. Q Sure, it was. MS. TUTWILER: And so you've got a lot that you've got to get done. But I can't answer for you all your futuristic types of questions. Q I just meant after the August vacation, whether the U.S. and Russia will resume negotiations for further arms cuts? MS. TUTWILER: My instincts would be I'm not aware, Barry, of a new proposal that President Yeltsin brought to town or has sent us since he left. I'm not aware of a new proposal that President Bush has put on the table. What I am aware of is that both Presidents made the two proposals they had put on the table after you have a follow-on to START. And so that I think they are both very proud of, as in my opinion they should be. It was a significant accomplishment, and now we're going to work on implementing that accomplishment. Q Margaret, just one question: Coming back to an earlier subject on the Israeli elections, what's the status of the momentum that the U.S. has spoken of keeping going in the Middle East peace talks? Is there still momentum going on now, and, if not, how soon would you expect the momentum to resume -- would the U.S. want the momentum to resume? MS. TUTWILER: That gets me into an area that I just really do not want to discuss today, and so I'm going to refrain from answering any questions concerning the region. Q Has there been a date set for a round? MS. TUTWILER: No. Q Any comment on Czechoslovakia, Margaret? Any new comment on the latest developments there? MS. TUTWILER: Not really. We don't -- I mean, I have a very long, lengthy statement of exactly what went on, that I'll be happy to give you. But our policy has not changed, and as it was and has been and will continue to be, this is for the Czechoslovakian people to work out themselves. We will support what they work out, provided it is peacefully negotiated. Q Margaret, the last comment on the Middle East was, I think, Thursday or Friday, or a couple of days ago. MS. TUTWILER: We took an exception to our rule. That's correct. Q When do you -- do you anticipate just sort of continuing in this policy of just deciding when you comment on the region and not responding to questions in general, or is there some anticipation that we might be able to ask questions and expect to get answers as of some certain time? MS. TUTWILER: I honestly don't know when the time will be. If you'll recall, we've done this once before. I don't want to comment at all today, and I'll be happy to revisit it with you on Wednesday on whether -- you know, after you have to see what the -- how -- I just don't want to say anything. [Laughter] Q If the election comes out your way. If the election comes out the way you want. Have the Palestinians -- MS. TUTWILER: Not a word. Q -- responded to your heartfelt expression of concern here about their meeting with Arafat? MS. TUTWILER: That's in area. Q That's forbidden -- a forbidden question? MS. TUTWILER: In area. I can't do it. Q It's "an area"? Q "In area." MS. TUTWILER: In area. In the area. Q I know it's in the area. I didn't think it's in Europe. (Laughter) You came out here and you said you didn't think the "Pals" and Arafat should have gotten together, and I just wondered if there's any fallout from that? MS. TUTWILER: I don't have any further comments on that incident than were articulated to you on Friday by Richard Boucher. Q He did a good job. MS. TUTWILER: Didn't he? Q Yeah. Q I thought you'd care to say why the U.S. was troubled by that meeting. MS. TUTWILER: Nope. I think you all asked that to Richard a number of times on Friday, and he rightfully refrained from answering that, because that would be going further than we were requested to go, and so I'm not going to do it on Monday what he wouldn't do on Friday. Q But, as you know, these decisions change from minute to minute -- MS. TUTWILER: They do. Q -- about when you want to comment on something. Friday is only a few days ago -- MS. TUTWILER: That's right. Q -- that you made an exception. MS. TUTWILER: It didn't change over the weekend. Q Margaret, do you agree with the assessment that Saddam Husayn is having a stronger hold now on the situation in Iraq? MS. TUTWILER: I'd refer you to the Secretary of State -- he answered that question yesterday, and I'd just refer you to his transcript. He went into it at quite some detail of what the Administration's view was on that, and he does not hold that view, and he stated the reasons why he does not, which I won't repeat here. Q Apparently Germany and Russia are negotiating a spy swap, and there's a report in a German newspaper that the United States is involved in those negotiations? MS. TUTWILER: Never heard of it. Q Our correspondent (inaudible) in Libya reported that the Libyan economy planning prime minister, Mr. Muntasir, is negotiating with the United States, but the negotiation is not progressing because of the hard attitude of the United States. Could you tell us something about it? MS. TUTWILER: I've never heard of such a thing. You're saying Libya? Q Libya. MS. TUTWILER: That a Libyan official in their economic ministry is negotiating with the United States? Q Yes. MS. TUTWILER: I would find that very hard to believe. We don't have relations with Libya. Q According to the report, the negotiation is going on in Washington right now. MS. TUTWILER: Well, that's erroneous report. I would be very surprised if such a thing existed. Q The Libyan Foreign Minister is quoted today in a speech as calling for turning a new page in relations with the United States. Has the U.S. received any messages from the Government of Libya suggesting the opening of negotiations? MS. TUTWILER: I haven't heard of such a thing. I haven't heard that the Foreign Minister said that today. Q Thank you. MS. TUTWILER: Thanks. (The briefing concluded at 12:50 p.m.)