US Department of State Daily Briefing #71:
Friday, 5/8/92
Tutwiler
Source: State Department Spokesman Margaret Tutwiler
Description: Washington, DC
Date: May, 8 19925/8/92
Category: Briefings
Region: MidEast/North Africa, Eurasia, East Asia, E/C Europe
Country: Israel, USSR (former), Iran, Lebanon,
Bosnia-Herzegovina, Croatia, Tajikistan, Serbia-Montenegro
Subject: Mideast Peace Process, Development/Relief Aid,
Arms Control, Regional/Civil Unrest, Terrorism,
Security Assistance and Sales, CSCE, United Nations
12:02 P.M.
(ON THE RECORD UNLESS OTHERWISE NOTED)
MS. TUTWILER: I only have two things. One, a number of you all
earlier this week were asking about Under Secretary Kanter's trip in
China. We're posting for you -- I've just gotten a transcript -- of
his press conference, concluding press conference he's held there
where he answers a number of questions. We have also been giving out
to you who he has met with, and we have that available afterwards. I
think his press conference is the best way to answer -- since he was
in the meetings; I wasn't -- exactly what went on there. Other than
to say, in his own press conference, he characterized his discussions
with the Chinese officials as having been wide-ranging and very
useful.
[Middle East Peace Process]
On the Middle East multilaterals, I said yesterday that I would
try to provide you with some additional details on the multilateral
working group meeting on arms control and regional security, which
the United States and Russian co-sponsors will co-chair starting here
at the State Department on Monday, May 11 and running through May 14.
First of all, I would like to put these multilateral talks in
context. The multilateral negotiations are an important part of the
Arab-Israeli peace process started in Madrid. They are designed to
complement and act as a catalyst to progress in the bilateral
negotiations. The bilateral talks, as you all know, have been
underway since last November.
The arms control talks, as I said, will be held here in the
Department of State. More than 20 delegations are planning on
attending. Thirteen will come from the Middle East region: Algeria,
Bahrain, Egypt, Israel, Jordan, Kuwait, Morocco, Oman, Qatar, Saudi
Arabia, Tunisia, the UAE and Yemen.
Additionally, the European Community will have representatives,
Canada, China, India, Japan, Turkey and Ukraine.
The meeting will be held in the Loy Henderson Auditorium and will
start at 2:00 p.m. on Monday afternoon. The working group meeting
will be conducted in seminar format, as we've told you before, and will
include presentations anddiscussions on the methods and concepts of arms
control, the evolution of the confidence and security-building process, and
the history of the U.S.-Soviet hotline agreement, the Incidents
at Sea and Dangerous Military Activities agreements.
With regard to the agenda, generally speaking, of the
other working groups, the refugee working group is designed to
examine the scope of the problem of refugee and displaced
persons and discuss data needs and the practical ideas.
The economic development working group will discuss
possibilities for regional economic cooperation in a manner that
complements the bilateral talks, for example, in the area of
trade, investment and infrastructure.
The water group will discuss problems associated,
obviously, with water in the Middle East.
The environment working group will discuss follow up to
the recent Japanese mission that examined acute environmental
problems in the Middle East.
As I announced yesterday, Ambassador Dennis Ross and
Assistant Secretary Richard Clarke will be representing and
heading the U.S. delegation to the arms control working group
here. I can only announce for you today the heads of the United
States delegations. I don't have for you all the other various
delegation heads. We will try, if we can, to get those for you,
but I'm not sure that I can get them all for you.
Bill Burns, Deputy Director of the Policy Planning
Staff, will head the U.S. delegation to the environmental
working group in Tokyo. The dates of that, you know, are May
18-19. Dan Kurtzer, Deputy Assistant Secretary for NEA, will
head the delegation to the refugee working group in Ottawa.
Those dates, as you know, are May 13-14. Allan Keiswetter,
Director of the Office of Regional Affairs in NEA, will lead the
delegation on water to Austria, May 13-15. Sandra O'Leary,
Deputy Assistant Secretary of the Economics Bureau, will lead
the delegation to the working group on economic development in
Brussels. Those dates, as you know, are May 11-12.
Q Margaret, roughly speaking, were there any
countries that would not be eligible to participate in the arms
discussions here? I'm just wondering, because some of the major
players in the proliferation problem -- you know, countries like
North Korea are not countries that the U.S. is particularly
friendly to. But was this open to just about anybody who would
attend, or did you ask a certain number of countries and a
certain number said we'll be there?
MS. TUTWILER: It's a fair question. It's one -- I
know it sounds strange -- I never thought to ask Ed Djerejian or
Dennis Ross, or any of the experts. I'll be happy to take
your question. I don't know, Barry, what went through their
thinking processes. The experts are managing this process, and
I honestly just don't know.
Q And a little bit more substantively, after the
President announced about the dangers of proliferation in the
Middle East, there was a rush of U.S. arm sales, a lot of them
associated with the war, but they went on afterwards, and the
U.S. has been pumping billions of dollars of weapons into the
region.
Do you have a general statement about the U.S's own
behavior so far as proliferation of dangerous weapons in the
Middle East is concerned, as you go into this working group or
working --
MS. TUTWILER: Today, for you, no, I do not. It's my
understanding that Ambassador Ross will be making the opening
statement for the United States at the meeting at 2:00 on
Monday. I do not believe that the various presentations are
going to be made available to the press. I'll re-ask, but I
don't have one for you today. I would refer you -- the
President has spoken out on this, as has the Secretary of State.
We have said, as you know, that proliferation of course
is, obviously, an issue of great concern to us. But we also
recognize -- and I think that the Secretary has said this a
number of times -- that, yes, we are one of the largest
suppliers. I believe it is the President's initiative that
Reggie Bartholomew has been having a number of meetings on, as I
recall, on this issue with the Permanent Five of the Security
Council, if I'm not mistaken. No, I just don't have one overall
new additional statement today.
Q Margaret, can I come back to my question of
yesterday?
MS. TUTWILER: Which was it?
Q Resolution 194 of the General Assembly, which
talks about the right of return for Palestinians and the right
of compensation. Does the United States recognize and support
that resolution?
MS. TUTWILER: Right, you did ask me that yesterday and
I don't have an answer for you today. I'll see if we can get
one by the end of today.
Q Is that a complicated question?
MS. TUTWILER: It must be because I don't have an
answer for you.
Q You asked for an answer and you weren't able to
come up with one within the 24 hours?
MS. TUTWILER: Many times that happens to us, and this
is one of those examples and one of those times that that is the
case.
Q Is this the opportunity to go on with Middle East
questions -- I came in a minute late. Do you have other
announcements?
MS. TUTWILER: I did it before you got here. Arnie
Kanter has just concluded a press conference in China. We had
faxed to us that transcript, which we'll make available to you
as soon as the briefing is over. Then I went into all the
details I promised that I would on this.
Q Let me ask, please, about the bombing of the
Israeli Embassy in Buenos Aires. You remember yesterday you
made a statement. Subsequently, the State Department
distributed a little statement implicating Iran. Is that the
extent of what you can tell us? Was Syria in any way involved,
or is there evidence to that effect?
MS. TUTWILER: I don't know whether there is or is not.
As you know, what prompted this yesterday was an interview that
was done by a senior unnamed State Department official. We, in
turn -- the Secretary of State has answered the question, as I
have.
From the very beginning, Barry, you'll recall, that
Hizballah or Islamic Jihad the very first day put out, I
believe, a radio statement claiming responsibility. We, at that
point, said we've just seen this one radio report. The next
day, we said that, yes, indeed, they were a likely suspect, and
our views have not changed since then on the ongoing
investigation that we have been assisting in. But I don't have
any specific, additional details for you.
Q I almost hesitate to ask it because this is so
picayune. You probably don't know it off the top of your head,
but was it, indeed, a radio report? I think it was otherwise.
And, secondly -- and this is a more serious question -- does the
State Department consider Hizballah and Islamic Jihad
interchangeable or do they see them as distinct groups? Because
Hizballah evidently has denied implication -- involvement.
MS. TUTWILER: My understanding is that Islamic Jihad
is a cover name for Hizballah. That is how we report it in our
terrorism report. As I quoted yesterday, from our 1991
terrorism report, which we just released two weeks ago, we
again, restate that.
As far as the radio report, that's how I remember it.
My memory could be faulty.
Q In that same report, in that same paragraph,
there's somewhat of a disclaimer. It says that certain
splinter groups of Hizballah have operated without -- conducted
rogue operations without Iran's direction. Certain State
Department officials have said that they have no -- even the
current investigation -- has no specific, direct evidence that
goes back to Iran.
MS. TUTWILER: That's correct. That's what our
statement said yesterday that we did on the record and we've
done again today.
Q So the only two things that lead you to believe
this are the link between Hizballah -- past links between
Hizballah and Iran and their statements in Argentina that they
were responsible for it?
MS. TUTWILER: I didn't say that either. I said that
we have not changed our view since their original claim of
responsibility. Indeed, if you recall, several days later, I
believe, they put out a videotape of the Israeli Embassy in
Argentina, which is normally their modus operandi, as we said
yesterday, for authenticating their responsibility.
I don't believe there's any secret that Hizballah or
Islamic Jihad is very, very close with Iran. So we said
yesterday, on the record, that nothing has changed our initial
view, once we came out with an initial view, of their being a
likely suspect in the information on this ongoing investigation,
much of which is classified.
I think what Barry was asking me today was, "Do I have
some more specifics that we can divulge to the public?" The
answer is, no, I cannot.
Q Margaret, there was a long investigation on the
Lockerbie affair which eventually led to indictments being
handed down for individuals. When Libya refused to respond to
those indictments, resolutions were passed at the United
Nations.
MS. TUTWILER: Right.
Q Now, I know that this is somewhat hypothetical,
but there is a principle involved here which maybe you could
address. Should investigation on this affair also lead to
indictments, would the United States view be that the matter be
handled, in principle, in the same way as the Lockerbie incident
was?
MS. TUTWILER: It is a hypothetical for me. As you
know, the Argentine Government is the lead investigating entity
concerning this. The United States Government is assisting the
Argentine Government. So it would be inappropriate for me, to
be honest with you, to voice what United States opinion was.
Obviously, generically speaking, whoever did this
cowardly, awful thing, obviously should be found and justice
should be applied. I can't tell you what the Argentine
Government -- what works in their government, I guess is what
I'm trying to say.
Q No. I understand that, but I'm talking about the
general principle of the United Nations being brought in --
MS. TUTWILER: I understand.
Q -- to punish a state sponsor of terrorism, should
proof be --
MS. TUTWILER: But no --
Q I understand that it's hypothetical, but I'm
asking --
MS. TUTWILER: And no two cases are alike.
Q I'm asking about the principle --
MS. TUTWILER: Right.
Q -- if a terrorist incident takes place, and if an
investigation finds evidence linking a particular state to that
investigation and that state refuses to respond, in the case of
Lockerbie the United States supported U.N. resolutions, actually
sponsored U.N. resolutions --
MS. TUTWILER: Correct.
Q -- to require compliance. And I presume that that
principle would also apply equally to other terrorist incidents
of the same kind.
MS. TUTWILER: Well, then what I don't do, as you know,
is comparisons, and that would presume that the two people or
six people or one person or 25 people who did this are no longer
in Argentina; that they're somewhere else that would require us
to go the route that you did in the Pan Am 103 case.
So I just think it's too hypothetical for me to deal
with. This is an ongoing investigation. We have been
cooperating and assisting -- offering our assistance from the
very first day. I just can't answer for you what -- where that
investigation will lead.
Q Well, presumably the fact that Americans were
killed in Pan Am 103 and the fact that Argentinian and Israeli
nationals were killed in this incident would not on the face of
it lead to a difference in the attitude that the United States
has to the two incidents and the necessity to punish those
responsible?
MS. TUTWILER: I stated that earlier.
Q Margaret, if the United States is convinced that
Iran is behind this, then why did we approve the sale of jet
engines to Iran?
MS. TUTWILER: I said that indicates Iranian
involvement in the attack.
Q Even if it just indicates it, why are we -- why do
we let them go forward with that purchase?
MS. TUTWILER: It's a question I'll be happy to ask the
experts who did that and if they took a look at this. I don't
know.
Q Have we approached Iran through third parties to
ask for explanations?
MS. TUTWILER: I don't know.
Q Do you think that Hizballah -- you haven't changed
your opinion in that Hizballah/Islamic Jihad is still a likely
suspect? Do you have any other likely suspects?
MS. TUTWILER: None that I am at liberty to get into,
that I even know of, of my own knowledge, because I haven't
asked, because this is so highly classified.
Q Could we go on to Yugoslavia?
Q This is the last question on Iran: There was -- a
decision was taken in The Hague, and the United States has to
repay some money to Iran. Do you have any comment on that?
MS. TUTWILER: I have something for you after the
briefing. The Legal Office brought this to me, and I just
didn't have a chance, to be honest with you, in trying to make
your 12:00 o'clock deadline, to digest it. So, yes, we have a
response for you, and I'll be happy to give it to you the minute
the briefing's over.
Q I've got something else: There's a report that
U.S. Ambassador Crocker -- U.S. Ambassador to Lebanon -- has
suggested that aid to Lebanon, any assistance to Lebanon be
withheld until the last two Western hostages -- they being
Germans -- are released. Is there any -- can you substantiate
that?
MS. TUTWILER: I haven't heard about that.
Q I know it's another one that, I suppose, is --
MS. TUTWILER: I haven't heard about that. I'll be
happy to ask the Bureau to look at it for you.
Q And, obviously, what aid is there to Lebanon?
Could you find that out, too?
MS. TUTWILER: We've done that previously, so that's in
the record. I'll be happy to.
Q Is that it?
Q No. Yugoslavia.
Q I have a quick one on that. There's also been a
-- there was a request a few weeks back by a Lebanese official
for the United States to sell military equipment to them --
replenishment type stuff. Can you see if that would fall under
this thing?
MS. TUTWILER: Yes.
[Former Yugoslavia: Secret Meeting between Bosnian Serbs and Croats/
Status/US Recognition/Update on Civil Strife]
Q Do you have any knowledge of an alleged secret
deal between Croatia and Serbia to carve up Bosnia?
MS. TUTWILER: On May 7, leaders of Bosnian Serb and
Bosnian Croatian political parties announced a cease-fire and
agreement on the outlines of Serb and Croat regions within
Bosnia-Hercegovina. Bosnian Muslims were not party to this
"agreement." According to the agreed division, however, Bosnian
Muslims -- 44 percent of the population -- would receive
approximately 15 percent of the land.
The United States view is that no agreement is possible
at the expense of the Muslims in Bosnia or the legitimate,
democratically-elected government. We note that some 64 percent
of the Bosnian electorate voted for an independent, unified
Bosnia in the referendum that was held late in February.
We believe the EC-mediated talks with all three parties
is the proper forum for the resolution of the Bosnian crisis.
The United States continues, as you know, to strongly support
the EC talks.
I'd like to point out also that the CSCE talks at the
senior expert level in a very bureaucratic -- if you'd have --
unusual move are still meeting. We cannot find a record of an
emergency meeting that's ever gone more than 48 hours, and this
one is still going.
Also, I'd like to point out -- and we will give it to
you afterwards -- that we have a very detailed update concerning
the very serious and grave situation in Sarajevo, in Bosnia, and
we've specifically addressed ourselves to the food shortage that
is critical and the overall situation there that continues, as
you know, to deteriorate.
Q Just to follow that up, the United States has not
recognized yet Serbia or the new Yugoslavia -- it's been
somewhere in limbo -- but you have recognized Croatia, and
here's the Croatian --
MS. TUTWILER: And Bosnia and Slovenia.
Q Yes. My question goes to Croatia. Here you have
Croatia, a country which you've recognized, a country which you
are going to be setting up an embassy in, carving up another
country or helping to carve up another country.
MS. TUTWILER: It's my understanding, Alan, they were
Bosnian Croats and Bosnian Serbs who went to this secret
meeting.
Q So the Croatian Government and the Serbian
Government were not involved in it?
MS. TUTWILER: To our knowledge. This is a secret
meeting. This is all we really know about this this morning. I
asked that very question myself. That's why I was careful to
say Bosnian Serbs and Bosnia Croats. If others were there, I
don't have that information right now.
Q Do you have any words that could reassure Bosnians
that their country is not actually becoming victim to exactly
what happened to Czechoslovakia in 1938 while the international
community looks on? What are you going to do to ensure the
territorial integrity of this state which you also recognize?
MS. TUTWILER: We're going to continue to do exactly
what we have been doing. We're going to continue to work very
closely with our allies. We are going to continue to point out,
as we do almost daily here, the seriousness of this situation.
I've just mentioned to you that a meeting of the CSCE
is continuing concerning this situation. The EC, I believe,
yesterday at a Ministerial level had another meeting in
Brussels, and the United States is going to continue to do
whatever we can to try to bring international pressure on those
who are not doing what they can to stop the loss of innocent
lives and to continue to call for a cease-fire that holds, that
works, and that this is stopped.
Q Well, it's just one meeting after another, and the
fact that the CSCE is now in its fourth day, I don't think is
going to produce much comfort to Bosnians who are seeing their
country ripped apart and seeing their physical existence
endangered. Aren't we beyond meetings? Isn't it at a point
where there should be some action?
MS. TUTWILER: We have taken action -- the United
States has -- and we have chosen to, as you know, use the CSCE
emergency meeting. This is the second one that's been held, I
think in -- what -- two weeks, and our official there, the other
day, stated very strongly and laid out in very strong language
what the United States position is concerning this.
Q Iraq: The Iraqis have announced that they plan to
forcibly relocate the 4,000 marsh Arabs that live in the area
around Basra. These are the same that have been fighting
against Saddam Husayn's troops.
First of all, does the U.S. have any -- well, does the
U.S. have any comment on it?
MS. TUTWILER: I haven't heard about it.
Q I mean, it seems to be a forcible movement of the
population from one area to somewhere completely different,
removing them from their cultural roots and everything else.
MS. TUTWILER: I'll look into it. I haven't heard
about it.
[Tajikistan: Mass Government Resignations]
Q Margaret, do you have something on Tajikistan, the
Muslim turn in that country?
MS. TUTWILER: Yes. The supporters of Nabiyev's
government, who is the President, and members of the opposition
have signed an agreement which includes the resignation of all
senior government officials except the President.
It appears that the fighting is over, and that a new
government is being put into place. Our Embassy reports that
demonstrators have dispersed. However, supporters of the
opposition have vowed to remain encamped in the downtown area
until the new government has been put in place.
Our Embassy has been in contact with both the
government and the opposition. It's my understanding, Barry,
that we have approximately 13 people there.
Q Is it a democratic government?
MS. TUTWILER: We are hopeful that we can continue good
relations with the new government on the basis of the five
principles enunciated by Secretary Baker, the Helsinki Final
Act, and the Charter of Paris which Tajikistan pledged to
implement when it entered into the CSCE.
Q Isn't that sort of the cart before the horse?
MS. TUTWILER: Isn't what?
Q Well, you'd like to continue -- of course, you
would -- but I thought the understanding at the very beginning
of the CIS, from a very senior official in Brussels, was that
the U.S. would like to have relations with all these countries,
but the extent of the relationship would be, you know --
MS. TUTWILER: Would be determined. Right.
Q What is the word -- would be proportional to their
commitment to democracy.
MS. TUTWILER: Correct.
Q So I thought you have to make a judgment what kind
of a government that is, and then decide, you know, whether it's
a government you want to have good relations with or nominal
relations with.
MS. TUTWILER: What the size of your embassy would be,
what the size of your aid would be, what the size of your
support --
Q So is there at least -- it's early --
MS. TUTWILER: It's early.
Q but does the U.S. -- do the U.S. folks there have
any kind of a handle of whether these folks are Jeffersonian
democrats or something reasonably close to that?
MS. TUTWILER: Not this morning. As you so rightly
point out, it's early. We are very pleased, so far, that this
has not exploded. Yes, there has been some loss of life which
we regret, but for right now, it seems to be under control and
being moved peacefully. But, yes, you are absolutely right --
and the Secretary has pointed out that a number of times, both
to you and your colleagues and to the public -- that that will
be our guide in determining our relationship with these new
states.
Q Margaret, we would be lax if we didn't ask you
officially, have you heard from the Israelis that they are not
going to attend those two meetings of multilaterals.
MS. TUTWILER: We have not. I checked this morning.
Q Margaret, a last question on Iran --
Q You know the Canadians have announced that the
Israelis won't be there.
Q Have you heard through the Canadians that the
Israelis are not going to be --
MS. TUTWILER: I didn't ask the Canadian question this
morning. I did yesterday. But I did ask had we heard and the
answer -- officially heard, and the answer was no.
Q The Canadians have been officially --
MS. TUTWILER: O.K.
Q To get really technical on that thing again: So
far as Palestinian representation, it's been put two slightly
different ways. One is that the U.S. --
MS. TUTWILER: Where are you?
Q -- supports the Palestinian exiles in the refugee
and economic working groups.
MS. TUTWILER: In refugee --
Q It's also been put in those two and maybe others
or, you know, possibly others. How does it stand right now? Is
the U.S. supporting broad Palestinian representation only in
those two working groups?
MS. TUTWILER: Correct. That's been our position since
day one. It has not changed.
Q There's been a suggestion maybe in another one or
two, but all right.
MS. TUTWILER: The co-sponsors' position has never
changed on that -- that I'm aware of.
Q Margaret, Iran is playing an active role in
Nagorno-Karabakh and apparently has been successful in brokering
a cease-fire. Do you see that growing influence of Iran as a
threat, or is it a concern of yours?
MS. TUTWILER: Number one, we cannot confirm that there
is indeed a cease-fire. We've only seen press reports this
morning, and we have said previously -- whether it was Iran or
anyone else -- anyone that could use whatever influence they may
or may not have to cease the tragic violence there, we have
said, obviously, we would support those efforts.
That's it?
Q I think so.
MS. TUTWILER: Have a nice weekend.
(The briefing concluded at 12:27 p.m.)