US Department of State Daily Briefing #47:
Friday, 3/27/92
Boucher
Source: State Department Deputy Spokesman Richard
Boucher
Description: Washington, DC
Date: Mar, 27 19923/27/92
Category: Briefings
Region: MidEast/North Africa, Eurasia, Europe,
Subsaharan Africa, East Asia
Country: Iraq, Israel, USSR (former), Turkey, India, Libya,
China, Angola
Subject: Military Affairs, Mideast Peace Process, Terrorism,
Regional/Civil Unrest, Human Rights
12:12 P.M.
(ON THE RECORD UNLESS OTHERWISE NOTED)
[Turkey: Reported Air Strikes for PKK Terrorism--
US Condemns Terrorist Attacks]
MR. BOUCHER: Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. I don't have
any statements or announcements. As a matter of fact, I don't have
much of anything, but I'd be glad to take your questions.
Q Let's try you on the -- let's return, if we may, to the
Kurdish situation in Turkey.
MR. BOUCHER: Sure.
Q The German Government now, convinced that German equipment was
used in the attacks, has taken action to end all arms, or at least
suspend, arms flows to Turkey. Does the U.S. know if any U.S.
equipment was used against the Kurds? And whether it was or wasn't,
is there anything the United States is considering along similar
lines?
MR. BOUCHER: Barry, I haven't checked to see if there was any
U.S. equipment used. Our views on the situation, I think, we've
expressed to you. It's the same views today as we've held in
previous days. And, no, we're not considering any suspension.
Q Richard, on this, human rights groups are concerned that
civilians have been killed. The numbers quoted are 75. Do you have
nothing to say about that?
MR. BOUCHER: Civilians killed in --
Q Kurdish civilians.
MR. BOUCHER: I don't have any numbers, Alan. As you know, we've
urged the Turks to take every possible step to avoid the death or
injury of innocent civilians, and certainly we regret any that have
taken place.
Q Do you have any comment on this German decision to suspend aid
to Turkey -- a NATO ally suspending its cooperation with another NATO
ally over this issue?
MR. BOUCHER: I believe, Ralph, it's my understanding -- and this
is something you'll have to check with the German Government -- the
terms under which they have supplied the
equipment are perhaps different from the terms under which we
supply equipment and their questioning whether a violation of
those terms might have occurred; whether it was being used
consistent with those terms. It's really a matter for them to
work out.
Q Could you roughly go over -- generally go over --
the terms, if you have them?
MR. BOUCHER: No, I --
Q I suppose it's the same as terms for any military
equipment because it keeps coming up with Israel. It's
basically the same thing -- I suppose you mean for civil
defense?
MR. BOUCHER: You mean for us?
Q Yeah, as far as the U.S. is concerned.
MR. BOUCHER: For us, I think it's basically Section 4
of the Arms Export Control Act that defines a number of areas
that U.S. military equipment can be used in. I don't have the
full list with me today. But when we're dealing with friendly
countries, and particularly allies, internal security and
legitimate self-defense are among the needs.
Q Richard, is the United States concerned about the
fact that these raids are taking place across an
internationally-accepted border and, in fact, an incursion into
another country's territory?
MR. BOUCHER: John, I think, first of all, you have to
tell me which raids you're concerned about. The ones going from
--
Q The Turkish cross-border raids.
MR. BOUCHER: -- Iraq into Turkey or the ones from
Turkey retaliating back into Iraq. The fact is, we're dealing
with a situation up there --
Q Is your opinion different on those two?
MR. BOUCHER: I think our opinion is the same, that
we're dealing with a situation in this area that is one where
Turkey has faced terrorist attacks from this group, the PKK,
which we've always described as a terrorist group.
We have understood that Turkey -- the fact that they
have responded. We've recognized that. They have been
responding to attacks of terrorist activity that's occurred.
Our position has been that we have welcomed the efforts
that they've made to act with restraint. We've urged them to do
everything possible to avoid the loss of innocent
life. When they've crossed the border to Iraq, we've urged that
they complete their operations as quickly as possible. So
that's been our view of the situation there.
Q But, in fact, you have no words of condemnation to
say about the fact that these attacks on both sides are taking
place across an international border?
MR. BOUCHER: I think our condemnation is for the fact
that these attacks by the terrorist groups are, in fact, taking
place. Turkey is faced with a threat, and they're going to have
to deal with it, and we hope they deal with it in a manner that
we have described.
Q Richard, the Kurds in Iraq have been subject to a
blockade by Saddam Husayn for months now. This is contrary to
Resolution 688 of the Security Council.
It would seem to some observers that the United States
is pursuing Resolution 687, which requires Iraq to dismantle its
unconventional weapons, with somewhat more energy than it's
pursuing 688, which requires that Iraq treat its citizens
decently. What do you say to that criticism?
MR. BOUCHER: I think that criticism is unfounded,
Alan. In fact, I hadn't heard it until you just voiced it right
now. But I would say that if you look at 688, if my memory is
correct, there are a number of things in there. I would say
that one of the things that we have done in furtherance of the
objectives to 688 is that the United Nations and the
international community, including the United States, have
funneled money and support for the citizens in the north of Iraq
-- the Kurdish citizens -- as well as people in other parts of
the country where we have been able to get access to them.
The U.N. has humanitarian centers. There are shelter
programs, lodging programs, food that's been given. You're
aware that Provide Comfort -- the operation there -- has helped
out. So I would say that the international community has done
quite a bit to assist the citizens that are being harmed by the
Government of Iraq.
Q Why doesn't the international community and the
United States, for instance, demand that Saddam Husayn lift his
blockade of the Kurds in the north in the same way that it is
demanding that he destroy certain facilities within his own
country?
MR. BOUCHER: I haven't heard that idea discussed,
Alan.
Q Well, let me put it to you, that the United States
and the international community --
MR. BOUCHER: Why not do something --
Q -- could, if it wanted, force Saddam Husayn to
lift that blockade in the same way that it is forcing him to get
rid of his unconventional weapons?
MR. BOUCHER: We appreciate the suggestion, Alan.
Thank you.
[Angola: Reports of Hyuman Rights Abuses by UNITA/Disappearance of
Officials]
Q Richard, on Angola: Have we had any recent
communication directly with Jonas Savimbi concerning the
disappearances of Tito Chingunji and Dr. Wilson dos Santos?
MR. BOUCHER: Margaret talked about that at the
briefing yesterday.
Q Right. Have we had any direct communications with
Savimbi on it recently?
MR. BOUCHER: As I think Margaret said yesterday, it's
something that we've discussed with them that we've raised
before. I'll have to check and see if we've talked about it
personally with Savimbi recently.
Q She said that she thought there was more
credibility to the charges than before. Have U.S. diplomats
talked with Tony Fernandes or Miguel Nzau Puna in the last week
or so?
MR. BOUCHER: I don't know.
Q You don't know if they've talked at all?
MR. BOUCHER: No.
Q Are we setting any deadline at all on when Savimbi
should respond?
MR. BOUCHER: Again, as Margaret explained yesterday,
this is something that we've raised. This is something that
we've urged them to look into and investigate.
At the same time, we don't think it should detract from
the process of the peace accords, so that's our basic position
on that.
Q Is the State Department prepared to, say, play a
part in an independent investigation to find out what happened
to these two men, as --
MR. BOUCHER: Again, I haven't heard such a suggestion.
I'd have to check.
Q Richard, are we concerned about the safety of the
children of Chingunji and some of the others? And Fernandes
still has family in there, too. Are we --
MR. BOUCHER: You're way beyond me on this one. I
don't know anything about the particular circumstances of the
individuals. I'm sure that we are concerned about the welfare
of anyone's family, and certainly concerned about the
disappearances of these individuals, and that would extend to
families as well.
Q Are there any possible repercussions if they don't
respond satisfactorily?
MR. BOUCHER: Again, Margaret gave our policy on that
yesterday. I'll stick with that.
Q Richard, any news on the Ambassadorial nomination
to the Ukraine?
MR. BOUCHER: Marlin Fitzwater announced that this
morning.
Q It was made official?
MR. BOUCHER: Yes.
[India: Reported Arrest Warrant for Former Union Carbide
Chairman]
Q Richard, the court in India has issued an arrest
warrant for the retired chairman of Union Carbide in the Bophal
disaster, leading, I suppose, to an extradition request. Does
the State Department have any problem with facilitating his
going there?
MR. BOUCHER: I'll have to get the lawyers to look at
that, Barry. You would have to ask the Government of India
whether they were putting forward or had put forward any sort of
extradition request. I don't know what the circumstances might
be with regard to extradition treaties and the like.
Q If there's anything, can we get it later on?
MR. BOUCHER: Sure.
[Turkey: Further Discussion of Kurds]
Q Richard, back to the Kurds briefly. Just to
clarify the U.S. position, the United States considers the
cross-border strikes a legitimate act of national defense by
Turkey?
MR. BOUCHER: I'll say what I had to say and stick to
that. I don't want to -- which was what I said today, what
Margaret said yesterday: That there is considerable PKK
terrorist activity directed against Turkish officials and
innocent civilians in Turkey's southeast.
We have welcomed the Turkish Government's efforts to
act with restraint in response to these provocations. We've
also urged that every possible step be taken to avoid the death
or injury of innocent civilians. We've also encouraged the
Turkish Government to improve its human rights record overall
and to ensure that all of its citizens are treated with respect.
We believe that the fight against terrorism and respect
for human rights must go hand-in-hand.
Q I've read that statement upside down, backwards,
many times. I don't see anywhere where it says whether the
United States thinks this is a legitimate act of national
defense?
MR. BOUCHER: Again, I'm going to describe it the way
we've described it. That's what I have to say.
Q You've used the phrases a few minutes ago:
"Internal security and legitimate self-defense," in an earlier
answer. Was that --
MR. BOUCHER: I was asked, "What does our law specify
in terms of how U.S. equipment can be used?" Those are two of
the items on the list.
Q And those are not applied -- are those two items
applied against Turkey?
MR. BOUCHER: I'm not trying to characterize the
situation other than I have so far, Ralph.
Q But you answered that question in the context of
questions about equipment sold to Turkey; is that correct?
MR. BOUCHER: That is Section 4 of the Arms Export
Control Act. I can get you the whole law, if you want it.
Q No, that's all right.
[Israel: Reported Transfer of US Patriot Technology]
Q Do you have anything more to say about the IG's
report -- when we might expect it and how you're planning to
handle the report of the Patriot inspection team?
MR. BOUCHER: On both of these, I wouldn't hold your
breath over the weekend. The Patriot team, as Margaret said,
will get back over the weekend. It could be as late as late
Sunday night. My guess is that they'll want to report to senior
officials in the Administration and talk to them first. My
guess is that on that, as Margaret promised, we will have
something to say, but I'm not even sure that it would be Monday
that we would have it to say.
Q When do we start holding our breaths?
MR. BOUCHER: When we tell you to, George. We'll tell
you some time next week when it's time to start.
On the IG's report, we've checked with them again, and
they're looking at it for the end of month which is next week.
It's less clear precisely when that public portion will be
released.
Q And, Richard, do you expect that at the United
Nations -- when the Libya resolution comes up, do you expect
China to vote with the United States?
MR. BOUCHER: You'll have to ask China how it's going
to vote. We're not into predicting people's votes.
Q You haven't counted noses at all? You don't have
any idea how they might vote?
MR. BOUCHER: We don't stand up here and predict other
people's votes, John.
Q Richard, can we go to Ukraine for a second.
President Kravchuk said in New Delhi that actually the
Commonwealth doesn't exist, and that they could secede if --
their efforts will be based on the principles the Ukrainians are
promoting.
MR. BOUCHER: I hadn't seen those remarks, and it
doesn't sound like something that we should be commenting on.
The relationships between the countries in the Commonwealth is
for them to decide.
Q Richard, the last Libyan resolution was
unanimously approved by the Security Council. Is the
Administration confident that it can get a unanimous vote this
time?
MR. BOUCHER: Barry, we have never stood up here in
advance of U.N. votes and tried to predict how the vote's going
to turn out. I'm sorry.
Q Do you still think that vote's going to happen
today?
MR. BOUCHER: We didn't say it would happen today. It
should happen as soon as today, allowing for the processes that
work their ways in the United Nations. My understanding is
there will be an informal meeting of the Security Council this
afternoon. Whether that leads to a vote today or after the
weekend, I'm not sure.
Q Richard, could you give us a list some time next
week -- take this -- of the Section 4 violations and what the
Department has ever done under Section 4 in the last five or ten
years?
MR. BOUCHER: Probably not. I'm not aware that such a
list exists. I'm not sure -- as we've said, the Inspector
General is looking into this area; that he expects to have a
report, and that portions of that report will be classified, but
that the public portions we would be glad to discuss with you at
that time.
I don't know whether such a list or such a discussion
will be in there. But, if it's part of that and it's part of
the public portion, we'll be glad to talk about it at that time.
Q As a follow-up, can I ask a question about the
convertible U.S. military aid for Israel in 1993? There's a
report that that's going to be eliminated or cut back
drastically for $457 million, and that the Administration has
already transmitted this to the Israeli Government. Would you
be able to comment or take that question?
MR. BOUCHER: I'm not aware of the report, and I'm not
aware of the specific money in question, so I'm afraid I don't
have anything for you.
Q Richard, could you give us any indication as to
when Secretary Baker will be ready to start formal consultations
with the Hill on this aid package to the former Soviet Union?
MR. BOUCHER: No, I can't at this point. As Margaret
said, he's discussed this internally within the State Department
and reached some decisions; that he's talked about it with other
people in the Administration. It's come up in some discussions
with members of Congress, but at this point he hasn't started
any formal consultations.
Q Are you waiting for that continuing resolution to
-- something must happen to it before you start the formal
consultations on the Hill?
MR. BOUCHER: Again, I don't have any sort of timetable
for you.
Q What's the relationship between those
consultations and that aid package and bits and pieces, such as
the one announced by the White House this morning, for purchase
of technology -- space technology from Russia? Is there any
relationship between those two? I mean, some of us would have
assumed that perhaps these sorts of things would be swept under
the same rubric, but I guess they aren't.
MR. BOUCHER: Marlin was asked these sorts of questions
this morning, and I think I'd like to stick with him. You know,
there are many things that we're doing with regard to the New
Independent States. Some of them are funded; some of them are
not. We've been -- as I think we've said before to you -- we've
been looking at the ways of getting the funding we need,
legislative vehicles and questions of how to proceed. At this
point, I don't have any specifics on how to announce as to how
we might do that.
Q So is sort of the key thing there that things that
you have money for you can go ahead with at any point and don't
need to be coordinated, in effect, with the rest of the package,
and things that you don't have funding for that's what you're
working on separately?
MR. BOUCHER: No, I don't think I was saying that. I
was just saying that we're not dead in the water. We have money
for some things, and we're moving forward, as we've tried to
make clear in some of the specifics that we've been reporting to
you every week.
[Former Soviet Union: Travel Advisories]
Q Richard, do you happen to know if the string has
run out on the countries that once were in the Soviet Union for
which the U.S. State Department is issuing travel advisories?
Two or three come out a day. I wondered, have we reached the
bottom line yet?
MR. BOUCHER: We've moved at lightning speed, Barry.
[Laughter].
Q Yes. But thoroughly.
MR. BOUCHER: Thoroughly.
Q No. I just wondered if you had any more?
MR. BOUCHER: You'll remember that yesterday we were
asked, and I think within a couple of hours of being asked how
quickly the others would come out, we said "lightning speed,"
and they were out a couple hours later.
Q Well, those three --
MR. BOUCHER: My understanding is that we've done all
12.
Q There are advisories for all 12?
MR. BOUCHER: For all 12.
Q Wouldn't it be easier to just issue advisories
where people are suggested they could go? You have half the
world off -- I mean --
MR. BOUCHER: Well, as Margaret said yesterday, we now
have 90-some various kinds of advisories. These 12 mirror to a
very great extent the advisory that we had on the U.S.S.R., and
they allow people who are going to specific places to get a
little more additional information that's specific to that
place, particularly the locations and phone numbers of U.S.
Embassies.
Q There are advisories on all 12 at this point?
MR. BOUCHER: Yes -- to follow on. But, as Margaret
said, we have these things for some 90 countries in the world,
and that we were looking at this very appropriately and very
urgently to see if we couldn't make the system a little bit
better.
Q Could you explain the difference why, for example,
as far as advisory for Russia was concerned, was the word
"warning," and as far as Ukraine and Byelarus, it was "caution."
So basically what is the difference between the two?
MR. BOUCHER: The word "warning" means that in the
advisory there is some place that we are urging Americans not to
go to. In the case of these advisories that came out, there are
certain specific places; I think, in Russia, it's Chechen-Ingush
region.
So, if we're telling people, "You shouldn't really go
there right now," or our advice is that, "You shouldn't go there
right now," then it becomes a warning. That just flags it for
the people.
Q What is the lowest level of warning? "Warning,"
"caution," whatever?
MR. BOUCHER: There are warnings, cautions, and then
we've had something in the past called "travel notices" that
usually deal with things like hotel shortages and a few other
things like that. So "caution" is something that we think
Americans should be aware of.
But at this point, you know, I want to emphasize what
Margaret emphasized yesterday: That there are a lot of these.
We think it's useful to provide information to American
travelers, but we think this thing needs a look, and we're going
to take a pretty urgent look at it -- at the whole system.
Q It's pretty rare that the State Department
acknowledges any inconsistency in its policy, but the fact that
you're reviewing it urgently on the very same day that you issue
a blizzard of a dozen advisories about a nation with whom you
are on the very same day discussing a massive aid program,
suggests that's there's some, at least dissonance, in handling
this.
MR. BOUCHER: Well, you might call it the straw that
broke the camel's back, Ralph. I think in dealing with these 12
advisories, as well as many of the others that we've done
recently, people felt that we ought to be looking for a better,
more efficient system of getting the information to American
travelers that they need, recognizing, for example, that in
these whole 12 advisories, there are very few places that we
were advising Americans it might not be good to go to.
You know, specific regions like Nagorno-Karabakh, the
Armenian-Azerbaijani border, the Trans-Dniester region in
Moldova. I think we have some advice on Chechen-Ingush. I
mean, if you look at the territory covered by this, these are
very small portions, and most of the other information --
Q If you look at territory covered by the specific
paragraphs you just mentioned, yes. But if you look at the
territory covered by the 12 advisories, it's pretty big.
MR. BOUCHER: No. That's what I mean. The territory
to which we have some advice as to the advisability of going or
not going versus the total territory covered by these 12
advisories, it's a very, very small portion of all that. At the
same time, we're also providing some useful information, we
think, to Americans about how -- where the U.S. Embassy is in
these places where we've just set up U.S. Embassies, and
information about visa requirements that may be in transition.
You know, status of medical facilities, a few of the problems
they might encounter along the way with flights.
Q Just a point of curiosity, how do ordinary
Americans get their hands on these travel advisories?
MR. BOUCHER: Well, there are a lot of different ways.
There's a phone number that people can call at the State
Department that I don't quite remember right now, and then they
get the recording. They've got a menu and a touchtone phone
that gets you to the one you want. And one of the reasons that
this was done was to make it possible so that somebody going to
Moldova, for example, might be able to access the Moldova travel
advisory and not just hear that there was something for the
Soviet Union which he may think doesn't exist any more.
So there's the phone number that people can call.
These are sent out to travel agents, to airlines, people like
that, which often may give them to travelers heading to a
specific place. I know they're on various computer bulletin
boards, and they're available from the State Department for
people who call.
I'm sure Embassies and Consulates also have them as
well. They go to all our Embassies and Consulates.
Q Do you have any comment here about that trade
agreement with the Soviet Union -- the Topaz and the Plutonium?
MR. BOUCHER: No. I think Marlin covered that fairly
well over there. He was putting out a fact sheet, and I think
providing some more information over there, so I'll leave it to
him.
Q You frequently, however, speak on the same
subjects. As you know, they don't speak on camera over there,
and this seems like a fairly noteworthy development -- buying
plutonium from the old Soviet Union and nuclear space reactors,
and yet no one has anything to say for camera.
MR. BOUCHER: Pat, they had plenty to say over at the
White House. I'm sorry it's not on camera, but it's been said.
Q Thank you.
Q Mr. Boucher --
MR. BOUCHER: You got one more -- two more.
Q Is there a -- I'm not too familiar with this one,
so maybe you know more about this than I do. I was told that
there is a United Nations report that deals with terrorism which
the United States apparently didn't vote for or didn't
participate in because it named Syria, among other countries, as
a terrorist nation, and that the U.S. declined to support that.
Are you aware of that at all?
MR. BOUCHER: Ralph, you're wrong.
Q Wrong? O.K.
MR. BOUCHER I don't know more about this than you do.
[Laughter] I know nothing about this. I'll have to check on
it.
Q Well, I'm glad you had the opportunity to say I
was wrong. [Laughter]
MR. BOUCHER: We got one more in the back. Sorry.
Q That was for camera. [Laughter]
Q I'm sorry, I don't know if you covered this before
I came in, but could you comment on a letter that was sent by
Representative Gejdenson, demanding the release of two cables by
State Department officers in China on a Chinese prison labor
factory site? Are you familiar with that?
MR. BOUCHER: I'm not familiar with a letter from
Gejdenson, but, if I'm correct, this has to do with some visits
and investigations that our Consulate General in Guangzhou made
some time ago. And I'm familiar with the general situation. I
don't have the dates in my head, but some time -- I think it was
last year -- our Consulate General in Guangzhou -- some of the
officers -- visited a factory which they were concerned about in
terms that it might be producing prison labor items for export,
and they were not allowed in. And that this matter has been
followed up with the Chinese Government. I can get you more on
that if you need it.
Q Thank you.
(The briefing concluded at 12:37 p.m.)