US Department of State Daily Briefing #25:
Tuesday, 2/18/92
Boucher
Source: State Department Deputy Spokesman Richard
Boucher
Description: Washington, DC
Date: Feb, 18 19922/18/92
Category: Briefings
Region: MidEast/North Africa, Eurasia, Southeast Asia,
Caribbean, Subsaharan Africa, East Asia
Country: Israel, Libya, USSR (former), Russia, Burma, Haiti,
Zaire, Japan
Subject: Mideast Peace Process, POW/MIA Issues,
State Department, Regional/Civil Unrest, Refugees,
Immigration, Terrorism
12:18 P. M.
(ON THE RECORD UNLESS OTHERWISE NOTED)
MR. BOUCHER: Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. I
don't have any statements or announcements, so I'd be glad to
take your questions.
[Middle East Peace Process: Resumption of Bilateral Talks/
Acceptances/Israeli Detention of Palestinian Delegates]
Q Richard, there's a little suggestion now from the
Middle East that may even grow that the Palestinians will delay
their arrival here, protesting Israel's jailing, I guess, of two
Palestinians who are on the delegation.
Does the State Department have any remarks about that?
MR. BOUCHER: Let me run down where we are on this,
Barry. First, it's important to note that all the parties
informed us that they accepted to come to the bilateral talks in
Washington, starting on February 24.
As Barry mentioned, today the Palestinians announced
that they have suspended their travel plans because of the
detention of two Palestinians who had been recently added to the
delegation.
We urge the Palestinians to continue the process and to
come to Washington for negotiations. As you know, the United
States long opposed the practice of administrative detention as
it pertains to the treatment of inhabitants of the occupied
territories.
We've raised this issue with the Israeli Government,
particularly the administrative detention of Mohammed Hourani
and Jamal al-Shoubaki. At the same time, we urged the
Palestinians to act in their broader interests by pursuing peace
negotiations here in Washington next week.
Q When you say "raised," it is in no sense a protest
or anything formal like that -- just a raised eyebrow, or did it
go beyond that?
MR. BOUCHER: We've talked to the Israelis, both here
and in Israel, and we expressed our concerns about the practice
of administrative detention, particularly as it applies to these
two individuals.
Q Did you ask them specifically to release these two
individuals, Richard?
MR. BOUCHER: I don't know in that great a detail
exactly how it was worded. I think we expressed our opposition
to their detention. That should be sufficient to explain it.
Q Do you see any link between rising violence in
Lebanon and the peace process?
MR. BOUCHER: No, we don't, Jim. I mean, we believe
that the plans are still basically on track for the talks in
Washington. I believe we over the weekend expressed our concern
about the rising cycle of violence in the Middle East in recent
days. We said we regretted the loss of life in Israel and in
Lebanon, and we've urged all concerned to exercise maximum
restraint.
I think you're very familiar with our position as I've
restated it today that it's important that all the parties
continue to pursue the avenue towards peace that's offered by
these negotiations.
Q I know you don't like to get hypothetical usually,
but when you say the talks are "on track," if the Palestinians
are not here on time, would the United States think that the
talks should proceed or -- they've been delayed on a couple of
occasions -- the various parties?
MR. BOUCHER: They have been. I'm not exactly sure how
it's going to turn out this time. But, as I said, we've had
acceptances from all the parties. Now we note that the
Palestinians have made this announcement, but we would urge them
and all the others to come to Washington and proceed with the
negotiations.
Q Richard, is there a closing end this time because
of Ramadan, March 4? I mean, are you working within a shorter
time frame than before when it's usually been open-ended and, if
people didn't show up for a couple of days, you could tack on a
day or so at the end?
MR. BOUCHER: Not that I'm aware of. I'm sure we'd do
whatever the parties felt was appropriate.
Q Richard, on this business of --
MR. BOUCHER: Patrick, did you have something?
Q Yes. Did you notice an announcement out of Tunis
saying that the delegation will be there on time?
MR. BOUCHER: I didn't notice that, no. Joe.
Q I was going to ask, do we favor, or do we --
aren't we opposed to the addition of these two men, who have
been detained, to the delegation and their coming to Washington
to participate in this peace process after all the commitments
made by our government to Jerusalem?
MR. BOUCHER: I don't have a definitive reading one way
or the other on these two individuals.
Q Richard, does the United States Government have
any problem with the use of military equipment in such things as
the attack on the convoy of the head of Hizbollah?
MR. BOUCHER: It's something I'd have to look into. I
forget exactly what the rules are on that.
Q Yes, would you look into it to see if that comes
under the purview of the export --
Q There have been reports in Israeli newspapers that
the Secretary of State has specifically sent a letter to the
Israeli Government, asking that this time they come prepared
with a detailed autonomy plan? Do you have anything to say
about those reports?
MR. BOUCHER: No, I don't.
Q I mean, you're not denying it?
MR. BOUCHER: It's not something that I've looked into,
Mary. I think in the past we've declined to get into that level
of detail about our discussions with the various parties on the
substance of the negotiations.
Q I noticed on -- it must have been Sunday that
State through you reacted to the assassination of the Hizbollah
figure.
MR. BOUCHER: To the rising cycle of violence in the
Middle East.
Q The familiar rising cycle of violence reaction.
There have been all sorts of analyses of how this fellow
figured, particularly in the release of the American hostages.
Do you have anything along those lines whether the United States
sees him as somebody who helped finally gain the release of the
last American hostages? He's been described as a moderate or --
MR. BOUCHER: I don't have any description like that
for you, Barry.
Q Richard, there are reports of another Israeli
helicopter rocket attack this morning in southern Lebanon.
MR. BOUCHER: I've heard those reports. I think our
position remains what it's always been, and that we hope parties
will avoid provocative action. We hope they'll pursue the peace
process. I don't have anything particular to say about that
attack.
Q Richard, do you have anything on Tami Arad's visit
here to the State Department today -- who she saw, what she's
here for?
MR. BOUCHER: I understand she was going to see Peter
Burleigh this morning -- I think with representatives of our
Near East and South Asian Bureau as well.
Q Do you have anything on the announcement that was
apparently made by Hizbollah that at the moment of Musawi's
burial, Arad was killed?
MR. BOUCHER: No, I don't. I checked this morning to
see if we had anything on the status of Ron Arad. We just
don't.
Q But does the United States Government believe that
he's alive?
MR. BOUCHER: Again, I don't have any information one
way or the other on his status.
[Libya: Libyan Judge Clears Two Wanted in Bombing]
Q Richard, can we do Libya? A judge in Tripoli
today, if I recall the story correctly, rejected the notion that
these two indicted individuals should be sent out of the country
to either the U.S. or Britain. Do you have any comment?
MR. BOUCHER: George, I don't think it will come as any
surprise to you that we don't put much faith or credence in what
a Libyan judge might say. We think that a Libyan investigation
or hearing is a travesty of justice and amounts to nothing more
than another attempt by Libya to delay and to evade its
responsibility.
What Libya should and must do is comply promptly and in
full with the trilateral demands made by France, the U.K. and
the U.S. on November 27. Those demands were unanimously
endorsed by the U.N. Security Council Resolution 731 on January
21.
Q Do you have anything on a second resolution to
follow up that one?
MR. BOUCHER: Nothing new at this point. No.
[Former Soviet Union: Collision of Russian and US Submarines]
Q Has there been any diplomatic traffic on the
collision of Russian and American nuclear submarines?
MR. BOUCHER: I believe the Pentagon and the White
House are explaining the incident itself. I don't think we've
received anything directly from the Russians on it, other than
the fact that Secretary Baker and President Yeltsin discussed it
on Monday, as I think you're aware.
Q Is there any indication of why they waited several
days after it happened before they discussed it?
MR. BOUCHER: Again, I think that's something for the
Pentagon to talk about, perhaps more than we. My understanding
is that they delayed any announcement of it so that in fact we
could discuss it and, of course, Secretary Baker just got to
Moscow on Sunday, and so he discussed it on Monday.
Q Any handle on the international waters -- the
discussion over who has --
MR. BOUCHER: No. I have nothing on that one.
Q Richard, is there any reaction in the State
Department on that Washington Post documentary last night on PBS
on Saudi Arabia and Israel and the United States?
MR. BOUCHER: I'm afraid I didn't watch it. I didn't
--
Q You didn't see it?
MR. BOUCHER: -- hear that there was anything in there
that required our comment, Joe.
Q Richard, the Secretary's coming back today,
correct?
MR. BOUCHER: Yes. This evening.
Q All right. This evening. You recall, I'm sure,
that he went to the Hill before he went to Moscow on arms
control, and they had all sorts of suggestions on moving ahead
post-START, and he is moving ahead.
Does he have any plans to go back to those people
informally or formally? There's not a problem, but there's a
question about moving ahead with ratifying the treaty as is, and
he was urged by Biden, for instance, to move fast, substitute
numbers and, you know, they could go along swimmingly and have
deeper reductions in the same treaty.
Does he have any plans to see these folks or --
MR. BOUCHER: Barry, I don't know of any specific plans
at this point. He's not back yet. He, of course, did discuss
these issues, not only with President Yeltsin yesterday but with
Foreign Minister Kozyrev today in Moscow. And I think we'll
have to wait for his return to hear what his next plans are.
Q You don't happen to know if the U.S. position
still is ratify the treaty as is?
MR. BOUCHER: I'm sure the U.S. position was amply
explained by the Secretary in Moscow, and I don't yet have a
transcript of what he said.
Q Richard, any new development on the loan
guarantees? There are supposed to be two top-level meetings
this week.
MR. BOUCHER: Nothing new on that; no.
Q Nothing. Do you have any dates for their
meetings?
MR. BOUCHER: I haven't heard of any dates for their
meetings. I'll try to check again tomorrow when he gets back.
Q Richard, do you have any comment, or could you
take a question, on whether the Department is going to send
anyone up to the Hill on Friday for the Obey hearings on the
loan guarantees?
MR. BOUCHER: I hadn't heard about those. I'll have to
check.
Q Is this the place to ask about the reports of
American prisoners of war, etc. -- post-World War II -- being
shipped off to Russian camps? You know the story I mean, don't
you? There's been a 3-day -- there's a Senate and House
inquiry, so I don't know if this is the place.
MR. BOUCHER: That's right. We've been working on this
issue with the Russians. I'm afraid I don't have any updates
for you. I'll have to get something for you, Barry.
Q Richard, has the State Department noted the
occurrences on the Burmese-Bangladeshi border where Burma is
apparently expelling tens of thousands of members of the Muslim
minority into Bangladesh where they are languishing in squalid
refugee camps without much in the way of food and other
necessary components of life?
MR. BOUCHER: I'm sure we've noted it, Alan. I don't
have anything particularly to say on it at this point. I'll see
if there is something.
[Haiti: Boat People Repatriated/Related Issues]
Q Do you have anything new on Haiti today,
particularly with respect to the fate of the repatriated
Haitians?
MR. BOUCHER: First, let me explain the numbers. There
were 527 Haitians repatriated to Haiti from Guantanamo
yesterday. There were no repatriations scheduled for today.
This brings the total of Haitians repatriated since the
coup to 3,930. Further repatriations are expected to take place
this week on Wednesday, Thursday and Friday.
Two hundred and fifty-one Haitians were picked up over
the past four days. That's 92 on Friday, 34 on Sunday and 125
yesterday. That's the information from the Coast Guard. That
brings the total -- since the Supreme Court decision on January
31, 14 boats with a total of 719 Haitians aboard have been
interdicted.
As far as the process goes, all repatriations of
Haitians so far have been uneventful. Returnees have left the
Coast Guard vessels, gone through immigration and customs
processing, and received Red Cross assistance and departed the
port without any incidents.
Q You still have no reliable reports, or no reports
of any mistreatment or persecution of these returned people?
MR. BOUCHER: That's right. Our Embassy is still in
touch with various international human rights and other
humanitarian groups in Haiti. Embassy officers are also looking
into allegations that they receive that returnees might have
been persecuted. But, to date, we have no evidence that
suggests that they are in fact being persecuted upon their
return.
Q Richard, do you have anything more about the NPR
--
Q Why does the State Department think that 719 have
left since the Supreme Court decision? Is there a theory about
this?
You made it very clear that you're going to send them
back, and yet they keep leaving.
MR. BOUCHER: I don't think I can analyze their
motives, Johanna. As we've noted all along in this process,
even before the coup when there was a clear and consistent
pattern of repatriation, there were people who departed on these
boats. So it's something that happens. I'm sure that people go
for a variety of motives. These are the numbers of people that
are going right now.
Q Richard, you remember last week, I think you
confirmed that some people are threatened -- some would-be
refugees are threatened before they leave. And, indeed, you
found there was no evidence -- the State Department had no
evidence that they were punished when they were repatriated. Is
that still the case in this new batch? Do you know if State has
picked up any threats against people? In other words, are
people leaving even with threats of bodily harm; do you know?
MR. BOUCHER: Barry, I don't know the results of the
interviews of particular people. I don't want to try to ascribe
a motive to any particular individual or even groups of
individuals that have been picked up over the weekend.
There is violence in Haiti. There's economic hardship
in Haiti, and there are a lot of people in Haiti who would like
to come to the United States one way or the other. That, as a
general category, is why people are leaving.
As you know, we pick people up. We interview them to
see if they have a well-founded fear of persecution. Those who
we feel don't have that sort of plausible claim, we return to
Haiti. As far as we know, we have no real evidence that those
people who are returned are, in fact, persecuted.
Q Do you have any better numbers on
"double-backers?"
MR. BOUCHER: No, I don't. INS would be the only ones
to provide that.
Q What did you learn from Tomlinson and his
colleague after the debrief?
MR. BOUCHER: We met with them on Friday afternoon. We
expect to have an Embassy official go out and visit the village
later this week, and we have raised the incident of their
detention with Haitian authorities already on Saturday.
Q Who do you talk to in Haiti?
MR. BOUCHER: We talk to various officials down there,
people that we have to do business with.
Q You don't recognize the regime?
MR. BOUCHER: We don't recognize the regime, but we do
have to do business and we take an opportunity to raise these
sorts of things when we can.
Q Over the last few weeks, the State Department has
suggested two minor changes in policy. One, that Haitian
would-be refugees can be interviewed in Port-au-Prince and apply
for refugee status outside the United States. The other one was
that you would look into visas for people who have apparently
been supporting the regime and also freezing their bank
accounts.
Has anything happened on either of these two?
MR. BOUCHER: On the second question -- the targeting
of people involved in the regime -- we continue to gather
information on that. I don't have any new steps to announce at
this point on that.
As far as refugee processing in Port-au-Prince, we've
sent some officers down there who have been setting up. They've
taken some inquiries and I'm told some of the interviews might
start in a day or two.
Q Richard, there seems to be -- the papers are
saying there's considerable competition in winning influence in
the Moslem countries in the former Soviet Union. And Egypt has
come out and Libya and Iran, and, of course, the Secretary made
his trip. Will there be some comprehensive report that the
State Department might make as to the views of these countries
towards the United States, towards democracy, towards the Middle
East?
MR. BOUCHER: Joe, I'm not aware. I don't think we
have any plans to try to do some kind of comprehensive report
for you.
As you mentioned, it's something that the Secretary has
been consistently addressing during the course of his trip. Of
course, his transcripts are available to you as well as the
remarks on their attitudes towards the United States of various
leaders in these republics and these newly independent states
have been making during the course of those discussions. I'm
sure there's ample information, if you want to do your own
report.
[Zaire: Renewed Violence]
Q Do you have any idea what went on in Zaire in this
massacre or riot, or whatever it was?
MR. BOUCHER: Jim, have you seen the statement that we
put out on Sunday? We put out a statement giving what we
understood of the events and stating very clearly that we
believe the use of violence to repress a peaceful demonstration
is entirely without justification.
I'll refer you back to that statement. I can get you a
copy right after the briefing.
Q Does this suggest to you that the regime is
becoming more embattled, more repressive?
MR. BOUCHER: Jim, certainly we think that this kind of
violence is unjustifiable. It's reprehensible. It appears to
have delayed the reconvening of the National Conference. As I
think you may know, we made a demarche to the government in
conjunction with the Belgian Ambassador and the French Charge.
Our Ambassador called on President Mobutu yesterday.
They urged him to reconvene the National Conference as soon as
possible, and all three governments at that point protested the
recent violence.
Q What was their response to the request?
MR. BOUCHER: Mobutu basically said that he was already
working to reconvene the National Conference.
Q Richard, on Japan, the new Japanese Ambassador to
the United States has said that there's a sticky patch ahead and
that relations are not as good as they had been in the past.
There seems to be -- besides the "Buy-American" campaign, there
seems to be a rising demonization of Japan in the United States.
Is the State Department at all concerned about the status of
U.S.-Japanese relations?
MR. BOUCHER: Jan, I don't think I would buy into your
characterization about the state of U.S.-Japan relations. As
you know, the President was just there, and he, on many
occasions, characterized the state of U.S.-Japan relations. I
think I'll leave it at that.
Q Thank you.
(Press briefing concluded at 12:37 p.m.)