US Department of State Daily Briefing #21:
Monday, 2/10/92
Boucher
Source: State Department Deputy Spokesman Richard
Boucher
Description: Washington, DC
Date: Feb, 10 19922/10/92
Category: Briefings
Region: Caribbean, E/C Europe, South Asia,
MidEast/North Africa, South America, Southeast Asia
Country: Haiti, Yugoslavia (former), Pakistan, India, Algeria,
Iraq, Venezuela, Cambodia, Israel
Subject: State Department, Refugees, United Nations,
Arms Control, NATO, Trade/Economics, Regional/Civil Unrest,
Immigration, Human Rights
12:20 P. M.
(ON THE RECORD UNLESS OTHERWISE NOTED)
MR. BOUCHER: Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. I
don't have any statements or announcements for you, so I'd be
glad to take your questions.
[Haiti: Reports of Reprisals/US Embassy Investigations/
Repatriation Issues/Other]
Q Richard, there have been fresh reports of
allegations about beatings and tortures involving the Haitians'
return to their homeland. Also reports that the Department is
looking into these reports, and I wonder if you have any
statement or comments or observations?
MR. BOUCHER: O.K. Let me try to run through what's
happened with that. Yes. There were some reports. We've
checked them out, and, as in our checking out of previous
reports, we have no information to substantiate them.
UNHCR has at least one person down in Guantanamo and
has done some interviews with people down there. They've
provided the Department with summaries of their interviews with
a number of Haitians who claim to have been persecuted upon
their return to Haiti in November, and these people were
subsequently picked up at sea a second time and taken to
Guantanamo.
So that's where these claims come from. There were
basically four individuals who made these claims. They were
unsubstantiated at the time. Two of the individuals were from
Port-au-Prince and two from a place called Petit Goave. They
said they left Haiti in November and were repatriated later that
month and were then mistreated by Haitian officials. We asked
our Embassy to look into these reports.
In the visits to the Port-au-Prince neighborhood and to
the prison where one of the individuals said he'd been held, our
Embassy officers were unable to turn up any information to
corroborate that story.
Our officers also went to a place called Petit Goave.
They met some people -- themselves repatriates -- who know one
of the individuals who made the claims of mistreatment. He had
reported that they had disappeared at the hands of police. Our
Embassy officers said that these people are in fact alive and
well, and that people said that they had not been arrested. So
in that case as well, our officers found no information to
corroborate the individuals' accounts.
So, as we've said before, in all these cases we take
these allegations seriously. We checked them out. We, I think,
reported to you on Friday a combination of Embassy people and
others who were available there to check these kinds of things
out, and at this point our position remains what it's been
before, and that's having taken these things seriously, checked
them out, we've not found information to corroborate these
stories. We don't have evidence that people are being
persecuted on going back.
Q So you're continuing the investigation as they do
come in from time to time?
MR. BOUCHER: Yes. Any further reports we get, we will
check out.
Q So you're saying that despite these reports, which
you narrow down to four individuals, you still have no evidence
whatsoever of any persecution or retaliation against those who
have left and been repatriated?
MR. BOUCHER: That's right, Bill. Yes.
Q Richard, how many of these people have been picked
up for a second time? How many people in Guantanamo are there
for the second time?
MR. BOUCHER: I don't think I have had the numbers on
that, Alan. I'll try to see if we can get them. I think there
is a substantial number of people.
Q There are surely more than four, right?
Q There's a public --
MR. BOUCHER: Yes. There were at least 41 or 42, I
think, that UNHCR -- at least that I've seen reported that UNHCR
interviewed, and I think all those people were said to be
"double-backers," as we say. I will check and see if we ever
had a total number for the number of people that have come in a
second time.
Q And of those "double-backers," how many have been
found to have a plausible case -- plausible enough, at least, to
be brought to the United States and have that -- their claim
pursued further?
MR. BOUCHER: I don't know the total numbers on that.
Q Could you get that number?
MR. BOUCHER: Yes.
Q Richard, is the U.S. making any modification in
its plans to send them back to Haiti while you're pending
investigation of these complaints?
MR. BOUCHER: Not at this point, Carl. As I said, we
check out all these complaints. We checked out these four
specific claims that were of sufficient concern to us that we
sent people out to investigate these claims. As I said, we
don't have any information to corroborate them. We'll continue
to check out any reports we get like this, but we continue to
process people in accordance with our laws and in accordance
with the procedures that we've been handling.
As for repatriations, there were 200 people that went
back on Saturday. There are a further 510 that are going back
today, and we expect there will be another 500 this week on
Wednesday and 500 more on Friday.
Q How confident are you that you are able to
determine what is actually going on inside Haiti, and that you
are not -- or that your Consular Officers aren't simply being
told what it is safe to tell them? And do they in fact get back
into the interior of the country where some of these abuses are
alleged to have taken place?
MR. BOUCHER: They do get to places in the interior.
We have a combination of mechanisms that I think we talked about
on Friday. It's our Embassy people who are there, and all the
people in the Embassy are pretty much available to go and check
these things out as necessary. We've augmented our staff at the
Embassy by two officers specifically to handle this task. They
have good contacts with human rights organizations, religious
organizations, development organizations that have people
throughout the country.
I think the OAS has said that it is establishing a
mechanism to help the monitoring, and they're in the process of
doing that. The International Federation of Red Cross and Red
Crescent Societies is available to help out on these things. So
there's quite an extensive network to check these things out.
And in this particular case, I said, we've gone to this place,
Petit Goave, and we've talked to people there.
Q So you don't think that there's any shortage of
good intelligence on this situation?
MR. BOUCHER: At this point, no. At this point we
think that we've got a good network established to follow this
situation. We've augmented our Embassy down there to
help do this task. As I said, we've checked out many, many of
these reports, and they just don't fly.
Q But the U.N. is saying that they think that the
policy ought to be kind of revisited because of this large
number of -- or the number of double-backers that they're
getting, and people who are saying recently that there have been
problems with repatriation.
MR. BOUCHER: Well, I haven't seen exactly what the
U.N. said, so I don't want to try to comment specifically. I
don't think we should necessarily change the policy just because
people try again. There are conditions in Haiti, both economic
conditions and a general situation of instability, that lead
people to want to try to go elsewhere, and particularly to try
to come to the United States. That is not new.
Q Richard, do you have any figures, or have there
been any more boat people intercepted over the weekend or since
we last spoke about this?
MR. BOUCHER: There were 13 Haitians picked up
yesterday according to information we've received from the Coast
Guard. There were no pickups on Friday or Saturday. This
brings the total number of Haitians picked up since the coup to
15,388. In the nine days since the Supreme Court decision on
January 31, seven boats with a total of 358 Haitians aboard have
been interdicted.
Q Richard, if these people are not facing any
persecution, why are they being fingerprinted by the Haitian
authorities and interrogated? Isn't it unusual?
MR. BOUCHER: I'm not sure if they're being
interrogated, Frank. I'll have to look into that and see I can
get you more on the actual procedures. I'm told that the
handling of the repatriation on Saturday was orderly, was
smooth, and that everybody has gone back to their homes.
Q And what about the fingerprints?
MR. BOUCHER: I'll have to check on that.
Q But they do that here too, of course, for a
security check.
MR. BOUCHER: Right. We've spoken about that before,
Bill, but fingerprinting is also a means of identification this
time.
Q Richard, the fact that some people are trying for
the second time to reach the United States suggests that some of
them actually got to Florida. Do you have any indications that
people are escaping the surveillance of the Coast Guard and
making it to Florida?
MR. BOUCHER: I hadn't heard that. I don't know why
you say that people who tried for a second time means that they
got to Florida. They may just be trying for the second time.
Q Well, I wouldn't try for a second time if I didn't
think I'd have a chance.
MR. BOUCHER: Well, they may think they have a chance.
I have not heard any reports of people actually making it all
the way from Haiti to Florida.
[Former Yugoslavia: US Support for UN Peacekeeping Mission]
Q Richard, according to press reports, Croatia is
prepared to intervene in Bosnia-Herzegovina for the protection
of the Croatian minority there, something that will result in
similar action by Serbia.
Can you clarify the U.S. position vis-a-vis to the
Yugoslav republic of Bosnia-Herzegovina?
MR. BOUCHER: I don't want to speculate on what you say
are reports that somebody's going to intervene. I think we've
made very clear that our policy is to support the U.N. mission,
to support the U.N. plan for peacekeeping, support peaceful
dialogue to resolve the issues there, and not to support
attempts to change borders or change the situation by violence.
That's a very firm policy.
Q But on January 20, your Ambassador to Yugoslavia
speaking in Sarajevo, stated inter alia that America somehow
will protect the territorial integrity of the Yugoslav republic
of Bosnia-Herzegovina. Can you confirm this?
MR. BOUCHER: I don't know what remarks you're speaking
of, so I don't want to try to comment on something that
Ambassador Zimmerman may have said without seeing it.
Q It's possible to confirm it?
MR. BOUCHER: I'll see if we have any readout of what
he said.
Q Richard, a couple of questions on south Asia.
Last Friday you said that as part of the nuclear
non-proliferation efforts the U.S. has suggested this
five-nation conference -- regional conference.
Has India agreed to come to the table? You said that
you couldn't confirm last Friday, but has --
MR. BOUCHER: That's right. I leave it for India to
state its own position. I'm not going to try to comment on
that.
Q No. But has the U.S. got any intimation from
India that it will be -- because the Foreign Secretary is
coming, I believe, next month.
MR. BOUCHER: Again, I want to leave it to India to
state its own position.
Q And, Richard, there are also war drums beating
between India and Pakistan on the Kashmir border. Have you got
anything on that, or does the U.S. intend sending a
troubleshooter over there like it did three years ago when --
MR. BOUCHER: I haven't heard of anything like that at
this point. I'd have to check on that -- whether we're sending
anybody special. It's an issue that we have discussed with
people on both sides, and I think you know our position that
we've said before.
Q Have you heard any war drums beating across the
border?
MR. BOUCHER: Not into this little room here.
[Algeria: Update on Civil Unrest/State of Emergency]
Q Do you have any update on the situation in
Algeria?
MR. BOUCHER: This is our understanding of the
situation on the ground as of this morning: In the wake of
civil disturbances over the weekend that left an estimated 40
dead and 300 wounded, the Algerian Government has declared a
state of emergency. At the same time, the government has begun
proceedings which would lead to the rescinding of the legal
status of the Islamic Salvation Front -- that is, the FIS.
We're concerned about the upsurge in violence and the
loss of life. As the Secretary said in Congress last week, we
hope that Algeria gets back on the road to democracy as quickly
as possible.
Q In another area -- in the Middle East. Any update
on the loan guarantees to Israel and the talks which are going
on now?
MR. BOUCHER: No, I don't. The Secretary addressed
that on television over the weekend. I have nothing to add to
that.
Q Neither did he.
Q Richard, can you shed any light on the increased
efforts to get Saddam Husayn out of Iraq?
MR. BOUCHER: Again, the Secretary was asked those sort
of questions over the weekend. He said that if you're implying
something covert, that's obviously something we
couldn't talk about. Our position, I think, has been made clear
repeatedly, including by him in testimony and over the weekend
-- that we completely support the efforts of the United Nations
to carry out the inspections and to make sure that the sanctions
resolutions are fully implemented. As he and the President have
said, we'd like to see Saddam gone and we would have a different
relationship with the Iraqi people and any new Iraqi regime that
wanted to have a different relationship with us.
Q Are we trying harder, or do we care more?
MR. BOUCHER: I'm not going to try to ascribe
adjectives to it. This has been a long-standing and firmly-held
position of the United States.
[Venezuela: Suspension of Constitutional Guarantees]
Q Any comment on the shutting down of El Nacional in
Venezuela today?
MR. BOUCHER: I wasn't -- you're talking about the --
there's a suspension of constitutional guarantees for ten days.
I take it that anything on El Nacional would flow from that.
Our general comment is just to note that President Bush
has made clear, immediately after the coup attempt and
subsequently, I think, that we support President Perez and
Venezuela's democratic government. Venezuela's democracy
withstood a serious attack last week.
In response to that attack, and with the approval of
Venezuela's legislature, President Perez suspended certain
constitutional guarantees for a period of ten days. Venezuela
has had a good record of respecting human rights and civil
liberties. We hope that all civil liberties, including freedom
of the press, can be restored as soon as possible.
Q But it sounds as though you support the suspension
if you support President Perez?
MR. BOUCHER: The suspension of constitutional
guarantees was done with the cooperation of his legislature. We
certainly support democracy, and we hope that full democracy,
including the rights and the constitution are restored as soon
as possible.
Q In other words, if a democratically-elected
legislature suspends human rights, it's okay?
MR. BOUCHER: Bill, I don't want to get that specific
into approving or disapproving of specific steps that were taken
down there. You know our general support for democracy. We
support a democratic government in Venezuela; and, certainly, we
hope that any civil liberties that are suspended are reinstated
as soon as possible. They said they've done this for a period
of ten days.
Q Do you think a newspaper criticizing the President
is a threat to democracy?
MR. BOUCHER: Again, I don't want to comment on one
specific newspaper.
Q Do you have any fresh intelligence on the
situation in Venezuela, whether a democracy is stable or ready
or there are any other -- I don't know -- reasons for concern?
MR. BOUCHER: I don't think I'm going to try to comment
on the internal political situation in Venezuela.
Q Not political. Military.
MR. BOUCHER: Again, I'm not going to try to analyze
the military situation inside Venezuela either.
Q It seems like the conflict in the Nagorno-Karabakh
area between Armenians and Azerbaijanis has now been
internationalized. The Russian paper Kommersant reported that
some 150 to 200 Islamic revolutionary guards from Iran are
fighting on the Azerbaijanian side and some people --
Lebanese-Armenian -- are fighting on the Armenian side. Do you
have anything on that?
MR. BOUCHER: I had not seen those reports. But in any
case, with the Secretary travelling in the area, I have to leave
any comment to him.
Q Two quick questions. There's a report that you're
going to be negotiating trade accords with four of the Central
Asian republics. Can you give us -- take that question and give
us a Background on who's going to be in negotiations and who's
on the other side in this? Are these functioning governments --
MR. BOUCHER: As I said, I haven't seen that report
either. But since the Secretary is travelling in the area,
that's something I would want to leave to him.
Q A question on the multilateral talks on the Middle
East for disarmament, I guess you would call it. Are those
going to be at all connected with the same talks, same type of
talks of the five nations in South Asia, since they both deal
with proliferation and so on?
MR. BOUCHER: I guess it would speculative on my part,
but why not.
Certainly, to some extent, the subjects are similar. I
think some of the countries involved are similar, but I'm not
aware of any specific institutional tie that's been established.
Q Do you have a schedule for the Secretary's trip?
MR. BOUCHER: No.
Q Do you have a date for the peace talks, the
bilateral talks here in Washington?
MR. BOUCHER: No, I don't.
Q The recent situation of Cambodia has become worse
and worse. There's a state of demonstration and rampant
shooting of the (inaudible). Do you have any new plan to deal
with that situation, please?
MR. BOUCHER: I don't know what you're talking about in
terms of a new plan. We've supported the U.N. efforts. We've
supported the U.N. deployments as early as possible. We
continue to support that, and as far as I know those plans are
going forward.
Q You issued a travel warning on the date of
February 7. This kind of warning might become a cancellation in
the future, or something like that? You expect the Cambodian
situation becoming worse and worse in the future?
MR. BOUCHER: We certainly hope it will get better and
better. And whatever happens, we will revise our travel
advisory when we need to to reflect the situation at the moment.
Q Richard, one more try on the south Asia regional
talks. The U.S. has been promoting this initiative. Are those
talks, if it comes about, is the U.S. hoping to host it here in
Washington?
MR. BOUCHER: I'm not aware of anything scheduled at
this point, so it would be premature for me to try to say where
they would be.
Q But what I mean is, the U.S. has been promoting
the initiative and it's already got acceptance, I believe, of
China, Russia, and Pakistan. So, could it be --
MR. BOUCHER: We're not at the point yet of telling you
when and where that might be. Whether it's accepted by all, I
don't even know. But I'll leave the other governments to speak
for themselves. It's an idea that we've been promoting. It
would be a little premature to start scheduling it at this
point.
Q You have already got acceptances from three of the
four parties, haven't you, Richard?
MR. BOUCHER: Again, I'm not aware that there's
anything that we can schedule at this point.
Barrie.
Q Richard, a number of American officials, including
the Vice President, have been reported as hinting that there
could be some link between the current GATT negotiations and
future American commitments to the North Atlantic Treaty
Organization.
I know you're not willing to announce that there is a
direct linkage. But could you give us some sense of how you see
these two things in any way connected?
MR. BOUCHER: No.
Q Do you think that the number of troops in Europe
-- American troops in Europe -- could be reduced if the GATT
talks were to fall apart?
MR. BOUCHER: Barrie, I'm not familiar with what the
Vice President might have said. I don't think I want to
speculate on that. I'll see if we can find something
appropriate for you. I'm not aware of what linkage he might
have made.
Q Has the State Department offered its position or
opinion of the torture and death in Israeli interrogation
centers as it happened last, I think, Thursday or Friday. One
Palestinian, 36 years old, Mr. Mustafa al-Akawi, suffered, I
think, failure and died in the center? Do you have any position
on these things which are happening in Israeli jails?
MR. BOUCHER: We certainly -- our position on the abuse
of prisoners is very well known. We're strongly against it and
always have been.
We are concerned about the reports that were coming out
of Israel on this situation. We've raised them with Israeli
authorities. We understand that there was an autopsy done late
last week. We expect that there will be also an investigation
done.
Q Did you raise this particular report, or are you
talking in a general way?
MR. BOUCHER: No. We've raised this particular report.
Q I understand that an autopsy was carried out, I
think, by a Red Cross envoy who is actually a U.S. national?
MR. BOUCHER: Yes. I understand the pathologist was a
U.S. national. I can get you something of a rundown of what we
understand of the situation.
Q He spoke on NPR. Did you raise your concerns
before or after his report? And were they allayed by his
report, which I believe found that the person in question had a
congenital heart disease?
MR. BOUCHER: Again, not being a doctor, I may not have
the right words. What I understand is that they found he died
of a heart attack that was brought upon by arteriosclerosis, or
a condition like that, and said that his treatment while in
captivity may have contributed.
I know we raised our concerns before the autopsy. I
expect we probably discussed it since then as well.
Q Were they allayed in any way or were they
exacerbated by the autopsy itself?
MR. BOUCHER: I don't think I can characterize them at
some level before and after. I would just say that we raised
our concerns. We've talked to Israeli authorities at a senior
level about this situation, and we expect that they would
conduct an investigation.
Q What are your concerns exactly? Could you be
specific?
MR. BOUCHER: Our concerns are about reports of
mistreatment of a prisoner while in Israeli custody.
Q How many U.S. citizens are there in Cambodia now?
MR. BOUCHER: How many U.S. citizens in Cambodia?
Q Yes.
MR. BOUCHER: I don't know.
Q Thank you.
(Press briefing concluded at 12:43 p.m.)