US Department of State Daily Briefing #62:
Tuesday: 4/16/91
Boucher
Source: State Department Deputy Spokesman Richard
Boucher
Description: 1:00 PM, Washington, DC
Date: Apr 16, 19914/16/91
Region: MidEast/North Africa, Europe, Subsaharan Africa,
Central America, E/C Europe, East Asia
Country: Iraq, Kuwait, South Africa, Sierra Leone,
Liberia, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Japan,
Czechoslovakia (former), Jordan
Subject: Mideast Peace Process, Regional/Civil Unrest,
Development/Relief Aid, Refugees, EC,
Democratization, Terrorism, Military Affairs,
Media/Telecommunications, United Nations
(ON THE RECORD UNLESS OTHERWISE NOTED)
MR. BOUCHER: Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. If
I can, I'll start out by giving an overview of the situation in
Iraq and the refugee situation. I'll try to just give you the
new things but some of the old things are still there to provide
some context.
[Iraq: Status of Rebellion]
As far as the situation inside Iraq, some heavy ground
fighting occurred between Iraqi government forces and armed
dissidents between Kirkuk and the Iranian border in the last
day. We believe there was also some limited skirmishing
yesterday in southern Iraq along the Tigris River. There does
not appear to have been any military helicopter activity in Iraq
since the weekend.
[Iraq: Refugees on Iranian Border]
As far as the relief effort, I'll start off with Iran.
According to international organizations and Iranian officials,
1 million Iraqi refugees have entered Iran and hundreds of
thousands are at or moving towards the border.
Despite the overwhelming influx of refugees, the
Government of Iran is generally dealing very effectively with
the needs of these people who are coming across their borders.
For example, the Iranian Red Crescent has fielded over 6,000
staff and volunteers and they're operating 29 camps, holding
about 250,000 people at this point. Of course, more is needed
and more is being done.
The International Committee of the Red Cross and the
United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees have been actively
involved in Iran since before the beginning of the refugee
influx. You know that of the money that we have given for the
effort, that initial $10 million, $6 million of that went to the
U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees and $2 million to the
International Red Cross. That's for their general relief
operations in the area.
The U.S. and the international community are providing
the assistance through U.N. and international relief
organizations, and we are in touch, through our protecting
power, the Swiss, with Iranian officials. We're considering
ways that we can be of further assistance.
That's on that side.
[Iraq: Refugees on Turkish Border]
On the Turkey side of the border: We continue to work
with the Government of Turkey, U.N., and international relief
organizations to establish effective and efficient means for
delivering and distributing relief supplies. Relief
organizations are now present at four of the drop sites and are
working to establish effective delivery systems. UNHCR is
working inside Turkey and is managing refugee camps on Turkish
territory.
Yesterday, the Turkish government began moving some of
the refugees located near the Turkish border to Silopi. The
Government of Turkey has said that it plans to move between
25,000 and 40,000 refugees to the new location, and the United
States is providing assistance as may be required.
We're working with international organizations and with
the Government of Turkey to develop methods to deliver the
assistance more effectively. This includes looking at ways to
relocate refugees to more easily accessible locations.
On Monday, 46 military relief supply missions were
flown -- that's 31 U.S., 10 British, and 5 French. These
missions delivered 326.2 tons of prepackaged meals, water, food
-- including milk, sugar, flour, salt, and tea -- tents,
blankets, clothing, ground sheets, sleeping bags, tarp rolls,
and baby food.
There are 8 primary drop zones -- 5 in southern Turkey
and 3 in northern Iraq.
In addition, additional relief supplies were delivered
using ground transport. To date, there are 198 military relief
flights that have air-dropped 1,390.4 tons of relief supplies.
U.S. military personnel are providing a variety of
services to Operation Provide Comfort, including moving supplies
by helicopter and truck to border areas, medical and engineering
assistance and water purification.
[Iraq: Refugees in the South]
In southern Iraq: Reports that the U.S. military
forces have declined to feed new refugees who arrived at refugee
camps are just untrue. U.S. forces continue to provide
necessary food, water, and medical support to refugees in the
area.
The U.S. forces are implementing U.S. Central Command
policy not to abandon any refugees who desire to come into the
demilitarized zone during the withdrawal process. This includes
transporting refugees to the temporary relief sites, as
necessary. There are an estimated 30,000 people being assisted
by coalition forces in coalition-occupied Iraq.
Coalition forces will remain in the demilitarized zone
until the U.N. Observer Unit is in place and functioning along
the Iraq-Kuwait border. Until this occurs, coalition forces
will continue to protect and provide humanitarian assistance to
refugees in the demilitarized zone, including the refugees who
are at Safwan.
Refugees at the camp in Rafha, outside the
demilitarized zone, will remain under the care and protection of
the coalition forces until the refugees are moved to a more
suitable location.
[Iraq: International Red Cross and UN Effort]
Finally, on that score, the U.N. High Commissioner for
Refugees has established a presence in Kuwait, and we continue
to work with them and the International Committee of the Red
Cross concerning their assuming responsibility for these
displaced persons.
The International Committee of the Red Cross has been
working inside Iraq, including northern Iraq, for some time now.
Prince Sadruddin, the Secretary General's representative
regarding the refugee situation, met with Iraqi government
officials yesterday, and he informed them of the United Nations
plans for assistance for Iraqi refugees and displaced persons.
Mrs. Ogata, the U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees,
met with Iranian officials yesterday, and she will meet with
Turkish officials today and tomorrow. But we expect that she
will provide us, as well as other members of the International
Relief Committee, with a report on her discussions when she
completes her travels in the area.
That's the end of the update for today. I'll be glad
to take your questions.
Q You seem to have a lot of specific information on
what's happening on the Turkey-Iraq border but very limited
information as to what's happening concerning Iran. You don't
have very much in the way of statistics as to what kind of help
is being sent there.
Beyond that, you praise the Iranians for the job
they're doing. I don't know if the refugees there would agree
with that. There are some horror stories about what's happening
along the Iran-Iraq border.
MR. BOUCHER: George, I don't think the refugees
anywhere would praise the efforts until the food and supplies
and the blankets and the clothing actually reach them and
they're taken care of. The response that the Iranian government
has mounted has been effective, in our view. That doesn't mean
that everybody is being taken care of at this point. We've all
seen the terrible pictures on television of the fate that has
befallen people, both on the Iranian border and on the Turkish
border.
I think the emphasis here is on trying to help and
trying to get supplies in and trying to help out in any way we
can.
As far as the information goes, we've got 8,000
military personnel, Embassy teams, AID teams, and things like
that operating in Turkey. On the Iranian side of the border,
it's been an effort spearheaded by the Iranian Red Crescent and
the United Nations organizations that are in there helping. But
I also said that we've been in touch indirectly with the
Iranians through the Swiss, and that we are looking for ways
that we can help them further.
Q Can you be more specific about that? It's kind of
provocative. What options do you see? Is direct aid to Iran a
possibility?
MR. BOUCHER: At this point, I can't be more specific.
We're looking at various possibilities. We have received some
more specific information on their needs from Iran, the kind of
information that we expect they're providing to Mrs. Ogata and
to the other international officials. We'll be looking for ways
that we can assist the refugees that are coming across the
border with Iran, in ways that complement some of the efforts of
the rest of the international community and the United Nations
organizations.
Q Can you say, though, that they had responded --
that Tehran has finally responded directly to your offer of
assistance?
MR. BOUCHER: Well, I said last week that they had
responded through the Swiss. They passed the message to us
saying they needed international relief. That included a
willingness to accept assistance that might be provided from the
United States. Of course, we've always indicated our
willingness to help.
In addition to that, we've heard from them, in somewhat
more specific terms, about the kinds of things that they might
need. We expect that those are more or less the same kinds of
information that they are giving to the international
organizations as well.
Q How about U.S. military personnel? Are you likely
to deploy them to the Iranian border?
MR. BOUCHER: I really don't have anything for you on
specific options, so I can't say what we're likely or not likely
to do at this point.
Q Richard, can you just tell us if any of the
options would actually involve direct contact between the United
States and the Iranians to provide this service? Or are you
only talking about international organizations in Iran?
MR. BOUCHER: I just don't know at this point what the
options are, so I don't want to start dealing with one or the
other as likely or unlikely or possible or not possible.
[Jordan: Status of US Review of Aid/Arms
Deliveries]
Q We've exhausted this. About Baker's trip --
evidently, he's going to Jordan, so I'd like to ask you a few
questions and see where things stand.
Where does the aid issue stand? Is it still frozen?
Where does the investigation of their apparent complicity with
Iraq in breaking the boycott? And, indeed, if you'd like to say
why the Secretary is about to make his first trip to Jordan?
I'd be happy to take that down, too.
MR. BOUCHER: Barry, let me take them in reverse order.
As far as the Secretary, in his meetings with Jordan, you know
he met with the Jordanian Foreign Minister in Geneva. The
Secretary has, just once again in the lobby, explained to all of
you who were there the reasons and the purposes for his trip
and, certainly, the opportunity to see what the prospects for
peace are. It applies to Jordan as well.
As for the investigation of the arms, they were
reported to have been shipped by Jordan. I think it was about
two months ago now that we had a statement here that I would be
glad to get for you that I think put the close to that
investigation.
On the aid request, I just didn't check. I'm not aware
of any change, but I'll check for you.
Q You mean it's still frozen?
MR. BOUCHER: As far as I know, but let me double-check
that. I just hadn't heard anything.
Q On the arms investigation, did you accept their
statement that the date was incorrect as perceived by the West?
MR. BOUCHER: Bill, again, this was two months ago for
me now, and I don't remember the exact words. But essentially
it said that we had no evidence that Jordan had shipped arms or
ammunition or anything like that to Iraq since the start of the
embargo.
Q Despite the clear dates on the ammunition boxes
which read 1991?
MR. BOUCHER: Bill, apparently the clear dates turned
out to be not such clear dates; there were people that saw some
numbers and jumped to some conclusions. Again, we explained it
here, and I think it was explained at the Pentagon as well over
two months ago. I'll be glad to get you copies of that.
Q Richard, can you tell us, will the Secretary be
discussing with the Jordanians -- with the King -- the makeup of
a Palestinian delegation to a conference? Do you consider the
Jordanians an appropriate address for talking about
Palestinians?
MR. BOUCHER: I think that's the kind of question of
that I'll leave for the Secretary during the course of his trip.
Q Richard, why is the trip open-ended? Is that just
customary caution, or is he open to some shuttle diplomacy?
Could there be room for a stop or two, or is it really an
open-ended trip?
MR. BOUCHER: Again, that's the kind of question that
you'll have to ask during the course of the trip. All our
schedules have always been subject to change, you know, because
we've changed them on you many, many times.
Q I can't remember, though whether you ever did it
open-ended this way.
MR. BOUCHER: At this point, we put out some scheduling
information for you, and any further scheduling updates will
come from the party as they travel.
Q Was my memory correct? Obviously, everything is
tentative and things change. I'm trying to recollect if you've
ever scheduled a trip that simply had no end to it?
MR. BOUCHER: Barry, I don't precisely remember. Every
trip is different, especially when you're setting up a trip in
the space of 3 or 4 days and working out schedules and things.
We don't always have the exact and final information at this
point. The party will give you scheduling information as the
trip proceeds.
Q Let me try another way. After all, he's returning
now less than a hundred hours after he came home, so obviously
he feels some compulsion to keep going, that there's some
momentum. The logical extension of that would be -- and there's
a question mark at the end of this -- if he finds something in
one of the stops and then finds something at another stop that
seems to answer something on the first stop, is he likely to go
back and forth between stops? Does he feel just once around is
enough?
MR. BOUCHER: Barry, all I can tell you is that
schedules are subject to change. They'll give you more
information during the course of the trip. You're dealing with
"if this, if that" for things that he's going to be doing in the
next few days. I think, let's let him do those things and he'll
make whatever decisions he wants to make about his schedule.
Q Back on the refugee situation for a moment. You
say there's heavy fighting near Kirkuk, and I guess north. Does
any of that involve any Iraqi attacks on what appear to be
refugees?
MR. BOUCHER: At this point we can't confirm Iraqi
attacks on refugee concentrations. We do know that some of the
fighting has occurred in areas that are not so far from the
areas where refugees are located. I can't be more precise than
that. And in some of the cases we know that the fighting was
initiated by armed dissidents rather than by the Iraqi forces.
Q If you're in doubt, there is a possibility that
some of the fighting and some of the action by the Iraqi
military could have been against people whom the U.S. Government
would define as "refugees?"
MR. BOUCHER: At this point, I'm not in a -- we've seen
the reports that have been in the press about that, various
charges that have been made. We can't confirm that such attacks
have occurred on refugees.
Q Richard, let me try one quick thing. I don't know
if this is -- you know, if you are in a position to, but it is
such a ghastly situation. Does the United States know if
distribution is equitable once the food hits the ground? I
mean, do we have a Darwinian situation? You have these awful
pictures of soldiers, Turkish soldiers, necessarily, I suppose,
holding back mobs. Starving people are trying to get at
airlifted food, and these people are not under U.S. control
except in some small portions of Iraq. Does the U.S. know if it
is a fair distribution that is going on on the ground? Do you
have any way to know?
MR. BOUCHER: In some cases, yes. In some cases, no.
One of the reasons, I think -- as Princeton Lyman explained in
testimony and I think Margaret explained yesterday, one of the
efforts is to organize the relief better, to move people to
places where they can get the supplies and the relief in an
organized fashion.
We do know that our air-dropped supplies are being
used. We see tents appearing. We know that people are getting
the food and what they need. We also know that there are many,
many people who need the relief.
As far as the distribution, you know, of air-drops, we
don't know exactly who gets what and how much. As far as the
distribution in more organized places, yes, we are able to make
sure that people get what they need, that babies are taken care
of, and things like that.
So one of the efforts that is underway right now -- in
terms of moving supplies by truck and by helicopter to central
locations, to distribution points that are near the border,
established drop zones and things like that, and then moving
people to places where they can more easily and in a more
organized fashion receive the supplies -- is I think precisely
to address that question, to try to make it so that we can
deliver services efficiently and fairly and safely to everybody
who needs them.
Q To go back to this business about what the
journalists and other reports are saying about what is happening
because of the attacks on the Iranian border, you are saying
that you need other kinds of indications. What other kind of
corroboration does the United States need to accept that Iraqi
refugees are being attacked on the Iranian border? When there
are Western reporters there watching it; there are television
cameras; there are photographs; there is medical evidence, the
United States is again being accused of turning a blind eye.
MR. BOUCHER: Jan, I would be happy to look at anything
of the type that you are describing you have for me. We have a
lot of information that is going on. We follow very carefully
the press reports, as well as all the additional information
that we are able to acquire in the area. We look at that
information carefully. You know that we have been very
concerned about the plight of the refugees. We have been very
concerned about the possibility that Iraq might interfere in
some way with the relief operations, and we have issued very
clear warnings to that effect, in addition to supporting a U.N.
Security Council resolution which insists that Iraq not
interfere with that.
So this is something that we follow very carefully. We
have looked at the evidence and the information we have, and we
don't have confirmation that those kinds of attacks have
actually occurred.
Q Richard, who actually requested the meeting in
Jordan? Was it the United States or was it the Jordanians?
MR. BOUCHER: I don't really know. I'll have to check.
Q Can you take that?
MR. BOUCHER: Yes.
Q On the question of a regional conference, does the
United States consider that an American idea or an Israeli idea?
MR. BOUCHER: I'm afraid I just don't know. I'll have
to leave that one for the Secretary and the party.
This idea was discussed many, many times during the
course of the last trip by the Secretary. I'll be glad to get
you everything he said about it, but I'm not in a position here
to elaborate on it.
Q If I can, I would like to ask about the situation
in southern Iraq when you say it's untrue that U.S. forces are
declining to aid refugees. Does that also include Iraqi
soldiers who are deserting from their units and showing up
there?
MR. BOUCHER: You mean whether we are taking POWs
still?
Q No, not necessarily POWs, but soldiers who simply
have deserted from their Iraqi army units and now really aren't
in the Iraqi army any more but are just showing up there.
MR. BOUCHER: We are accepting people into the refugee
camps and the refugee areas where they come to get help. You
have seen the pictures. You know that our medical teams, our
military forces, have also been helping the local population in
the towns and the cities that are there. I think they are
prepared to leave some supplies and services behind when they
go.
So I think we are helping everybody down there who
needs the help. We are continuing to provide assistance to
people who are there and to the people who are in the refugee
camps who need it the most.
Q No distinction is being made if they are former
Iraqi army therefore?
MR. BOUCHER: I think we are helping people in need.
Q Any reaction, Richard, to a new Israeli settlement
which has apparently sprung up?
MR. BOUCHER: The Secretary was asked that question in
the lobby, and I'll leave it with his answer.
Q Anything on the death toll over in the refugee
areas?
MR. BOUCHER: No. We put up an answer yesterday
afternoon that described the kind of estimates we had and that
said that we thought it was still rising. That remains the case
today. People are weak, people came without any supplies and
without anything with them to sustain themselves, and you have
seen the kind of circumstances they have been caught in.
Q Back on the question of the length of the
Secretary's trip, is there a date by which he has to be back?
Q Is there a Bar Mitzvah in Houston?
Q Is there something he has to be back for?
MR. BOUCHER: I'll have to check on that and see. I
don't know.
Q He often has these personal dates. Perhaps there
is some hope.
Q Or to put it another way, he can't go out again
until he comes back. (Laughter.)
MR. BOUCHER: That's right, Barry. And you can't
report the next trip until we have done this one.
Q Richard, I think yesterday -- or last week, rather
-- you described the refugee flows on the Turkish side as really
stopping and in some cases even some people were going back.
Over to the Iranian side, for a minute, with this heavy fighting
going on quite close to the Iranian border there and the huge
numbers that you reported crossing the Iranian border already,
is that flow very much still being driven by fighting?
MR. BOUCHER: The flow of refugees arriving at the Iran
and Turkish borders does continue in both areas. We do have
some evidence that limited numbers of refugees are returning to
some cities and towns in northern Iraq. The numbers are not
significant enough to affect the desperate situation of more
than a million refugees that are crossing Iraq's northern
borders. And, as I said, the flow continues there.
Q Richard, does the State Department have an opinion
on the practice by Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, maybe other
countries, to not allow Americans who have an Israeli stamp in
their passport to go to those countries?
MR. BOUCHER: I don't know. I'll have to check on
that. I just don't know.
Q The New York Times had an article about the "Voice
of Free Iraq" continuing to broadcast appeals for the population
to rise up. Do you have any view just as to the wisdom of such
broadcasts and as to whether there should be such a radio
station, despite its clandestine nature?
MR. BOUCHER: That's a question that I consistently
have not had any comment on, and I'll maintain my consistency
today.
Q Has the United States or the allied forces
apprehended or arrested any individuals in connection with war
crimes allegations?
MR. BOUCHER: The Pentagon talked about that a couple
weeks ago. I'm not sure they have given an update, but since
they are the people that have the prisoners and that are holding
people, I think we'll have to ask the question over there.
Q Isn't the State Department conducting the legal
investigation into whether war crimes violations should be
pursued?
MR. BOUCHER: The collection of information has always
been centered at the Pentagon. We, of course, provide any
information that we get on it to them. We are part of the
process, but they have been in the lead ever since August 2.
Q Do you have any reaction to the European
Community's consensus that Saddam Hussein should be tried for war
crimes, punished for war crimes violations, or can you --
MR. BOUCHER: Not further to what the Secretary just
gave in the lobby.
Q Also on the European Community, do you have any
comment on their decision to lift sanctions against South
Africa?
MR. BOUCHER: No real comment about that. Margaret was
asked yesterday about it and said that our position on sanctions
has not changed. We'll follow our law, and we'll consult with
our Congress as progress is made on the points that are
contained in our law.
Q Do you have any read-out on the Secretary's
meeting with Foreign Minister Dienstbier?
MR. BOUCHER: The briefest of brief read-outs, I'm
afraid. They talked primarily about economic issues, including
the difficult situation that is currently facing Czechoslovakia.
They also discussed the future architecture of Europe and
questions of security in Europe.
Q What building did they talk about? (Laughter.)
MR. BOUCHER: Sorry I don't have more.
Q I understand that a group of Iraqi dissidents will
be meeting with some people at State this afternoon. Can you
tell us with whom they are meeting, and do you have anything on
the meeting itself?
MR. BOUCHER: I didn't bring with me the thing that we
posted yesterday about the meetings. We had a number of
meetings last week, and we are going to continue to have some
meetings this week. I think this afternoon --
Q Who will be meeting with those people? Who will
represent the State Department?
MR. BOUCHER: I think that was in the answer yesterday.
If it is not, I will get it for you today.
[Sierra Leone: Under Attack/Status of US Aid]
Q Anything on Liberia and Sierra Leone?
MR. BOUCHER: Anything particular you want to know?
Q Well, apparently some guerrillas have been
infiltrated into Sierra Leone and ECOMOG is coming to terms with
this, or two governments.
MR. BOUCHER: Sierra Leone is under attack by forces of
the National Patriotic Front of Liberia. In addition to the
United States, the Sierra Leone Government has requested
assistance from other friendly states to help confront this
unprovoked aggression. We have urged Sierra Leone's friends to
respond favorably to its requests for assistance.
The National Patriotic Front of Liberia's invasion of
Sierra Leone makes all too clear the urgent need to reach a
political settlement in Liberia. We call on all parties to the
Liberian conflict to put aside personal political ambition and
to commit themselves to actively work to reach a negotiated
solution to the Liberian question. And we are in touch with the
various Liberian parties to urge that course on them.
Q Is the United States going to provide assistance?
MR. BOUCHER: We are actively considering ways in which
we can respond positively to Sierra Leone's request for
assistance. I don't have any final answers for you today.
Q Do we still have ships off the coast of Liberia,
off Monrovia, do you know?
MR. BOUCHER: I'd better check on that. I don't know.
[El Salvador: Kidnappings of Wealthy Salvadorans]
Q Also, do you have anything on kidnappings in El
Salvador that have affected wealthier families in recent weeks?
MR. BOUCHER: No, I don't.
Q Could you look into that?
MR. BOUCHER: I'll look into it.
[Nicaragua: Calls for 10-Year US Financial
Committment/Aid]
Q President Chamorro asked for a ten-year U.S.
financial commitment to help Nicaragua recover? She made the
appeal in a speech to Congress this morning. I wonder if you
have any reaction?
MR. BOUCHER: I don't at this point. There will be
meetings with her over the course of the next few days. I think
there will be briefings; and the briefings, I am sure, will
address that question.
Q What's the status of aid to Nicaragua at the
moment? There were some promises of large amounts, some of
which have been held up.
MR. BOUCHER: The aid this year was about $530-$534
million, something like that; and I think $200 and some has been
disbursed. There are understandings with the Government of
Nicaragua about the disbursal of the rest of that.
Q How much is predicated on the Bermudez case?
MR. BOUCHER: I don't know. Let me get the facts for
you. Let me make sure my memory is correct in all this stuff.
Frankly, I just had some doubts as I was saying the figures, so
let me get you a written answer on that.
Q On President Gorbachev's visit to Japan, do you
have any comment on his plan to call for a tripartite
consultation mechanism among Japan, U.S. and the Soviet Union
for the security of northeast Asia?
MR. BOUCHER: I'm afraid I haven't seen that. I don't
have anything on that.
Q Thank you.
(The briefing concluded at 1:29 p.m.)