US Department of State Daily Briefing,#55,
Thursday, 4/4/91
Boucher
Source: State Department Deputy Spokesman Richard
Boucher
Description: 12:54 PM, Washington, DC
Date: Apr 4, 19914/4/91
Category: Briefings
Country: Iraq, Kuwait, Albania, Japan, South Africa,
Iran
Subject: Regional/Civil Unrest, Development/Relief Aid,
Refugees, International Law, Human Rights,
United Nations
(ON THE RECORD UNLESS OTHERWISE NOTED)
[Iraq: Civl Unrest Update]
MR. BOUCHER: Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. I
thought I'd start off by updating you on the situation inside Iraq and
then what we're doing at the United Nations to deal with the
results, the very tragic results of that situation.
Scattered fighting continues in northern Iraq between
government forces and dissidents. In the Sulaymaniyah area,
government forces probably have taken control of the city and its
environs. Other major northern towns, including Irbil, Kirkuk, and
Mosul remain largely under government control.
In the south, the Iraqi forces remain deployed in and around
the city of Basra, but there probably have been additional clashes
between government forces and dissidents in that city.
Saddam Hussein is now in control of all the major towns in
Iraq but he has to maintain a heavy security presence, and there are
scattered clashes which continue.
[Iraq: US/UN Efforts on Humanitarian Aid]
Why don't we move onto the United Nations. As Margaret made
clear yesterday, Ambassador Pickering had instructions to raise and
work on the issues of the Iraqi civilians and the suffering that has
been caused to them, as soon as we had passage of the ceasefire
resolution. That passed yesterday and, indeed, he went to work on
an immediate and urgent basis.
You're all aware of the other countries -- how many other
countries are interested in this. Under Secretary Kimmitt met
yesterday with the French and Turkish Ambassadors to Washington.
Those were separate meetings.
The Permanent Five Members met briefly yesterday on this
issue, and they are meeting again today.
The President and the Secretary spoke this morning about the
activity at the United Nations and what we could do up there. At
this point, we are talking to others about the elements of a
resolution which would express the international
community's condemnation and its determination to do what it can
to address the humanitarian needs of people fleeing the
fighting. So that's where we stand today.
Q What would you be condemning?
MR. BOUCHER: The international community's
condemnation -- I think Margaret put it yesterday -- of the
brutality of the way Iraq had put down these uprisings and the
brutal way in which they were treating their own civilians.
Q Well, what can you do about the people who are
fleeing? Are you talking just about money? Are you talking
about some way to protect the Kurds who are now struggling
through the mountains? Are you talking about doing anything to
prevent some sort of a massacre once U.S. troops leave the
occupied zone?
MR. BOUCHER: This is operating on several levels. We
are acting with other countries in the United Nations to get
international condemnation. How exactly that will be phrased, I
can't tell you at this point. We're still discussing the
elements of a resolution with other governments.
We're also seeing to the needs of people who are
fleeing the fighting. I think we've been talking all along
about the refugee programs that have been put in place in
neighboring countries to Iraq; the efforts that we have made to
support the international assistance effort to refugees -- the
camps that have been set up. Margaret talked about some of that
yesterday, and I could go into a little more detail if you want
me to today.
Q Yes.
MR. BOUCHER: All right, in a minute. Finally, we've
also talked about humanitarian assistance for people inside
Iraq. This is something that we've discussed in the past, our
efforts to support the ICRC. I think you're aware that the ICRC
is operating in Iraq. I think I heard them yesterday say that
they were going to be sending missions up towards the northern
parts of the country to try to expand their activities up there.
Q But is it still the intention of the U.S. and the
international community to do nothing to actively stop the
slaughter that's going on now?
MR. BOUCHER: If you're talking about U.S. military
intervention, that's been --
Q I'm not even talking about --
MR. BOUCHER: -- actively discussed by the President
and others over the past few days.
Q Let's not talk about U.S. military intervention.
But what about sort of --
MR. BOUCHER: Coalition military intervention?
Q Coalition -- yes. Coalition.
MR. BOUCHER: I'm not aware of any other coalition
partner that's actively proposing military intervention. And,
again, I think the President made that point yesterday.
[Iraq: Refugee Flow to Turkey]
Q Are you putting any pressure on Turkey to open its
border?
MR. BOUCHER: Let me run through -- John asked if we
wouldn't talk about the multilateral assistance. Let me run
through Turkey and get to the question of borders.
First, on the numbers. The Turkish government has
reported that 12,000 Iraqis are now in Turkey. This is an
increase from 5,000 last week.
Turkish officials estimate that 200,000 to 300,000
people may be located close to the Turkey/Iraqi border. At this
point, there is no independent confirmation of those numbers
from U.N. agencies or from other precise sources.
It is clear that large numbers of Kurds and other Iraqi
nationals are fleeing the fighting in northern Iraq and could
conceivably cross into Turkey.
The international relief community has recognized since
last January that the potential for a humanitarian emergency
exists in Turkey and is responding accordingly. In light of
recent events, the United Nations has increased the target camp
capacity in Turkey from 20,000 to 100,000.
Margaret talked yesterday about the supplies and
personnel that were prepositioned in Turkey to take care of
refugee flows, and additional U.N. personnel and resources are
being deployed now to Turkey. Existing camps and reception
facilities are being augmented and new ones are being
established by the Turkish Red Crescent.
In the White House statement yesterday about the U.N.
resolution and our concern about the brutality in Iraq, the
President made very clear that the United States is prepared to
extend economic help to Turkey through multilateral channels,
and we call on others to do likewise.
Q But no direct aid? No direct help from the United
States to Turkey or Iran; right?
MR. BOUCHER: We have our AID programs for Turkey
which are considerable, but not in light of the war. The
situation of refugees and displaced persons is normally handled
through international organizations. We have been a contributor
to that. I think we've told you before, we gave $7.6 million in
money and food supplies to those organizations as part of an
initial collection of $63 million that they had underway in
order to plan for adequate capacity to take care of the numbers
of people that were coming out.
Q Iran was mentioned, too? You said to Turkey and
Iran?
MR. BOUCHER: I can do Iran later, if you want me to.
Q Keep going.
MR. BOUCHER: OK. We'll do everything. The situation,
as far as money goes, we provide the money to the U.N.
organizations who have been planning this relief -- who have
been planning the assistance to refugees and who have decided,
based on their calculations of where people might show up, to
preposition material to provide camp capacity and who are now,
based on where people are showing up, directing that money to
places where the people are going so that they can quickly
expand the camp capacity to take care of the numbers of the
people that are coming across.
[Turkey: Discussion on Open Border]
As regards the border, as I said, the President made
very clear that we're interested in helping Turkey through the
multilateral channels to take care of people. The Turks have
said that the border is closed. We understand that thousands of
displaced persons have nonetheless crossed the border into
Turkey.
The Turks are greatly concerned by the possibility that
hundreds of thousands of displaced persons could enter Turkey
with few prospects of returning to Iraq. The Turkish government
has called for U.N. action to put pressure on Saddam Hussein to
desist from further attacks on unarmed civilians. I told you
what we were doing with other members in that regard.
The Turkish government has simultaneously mounted an
operation to provide assistance, mainly food, to those displaced
persons near its border with Iraq. Displaced persons continue
to enter Turkey through the mountains and by crossing the river
along the Turkish-Iraqi border.
We understand that one bridge -- the bridge at the
Habur border-crossing was destroyed during the Gulf conflict and
that that area around it is heavily mined. So they're coming
through in other ways.
Q Just a technical question. When you say the U.N.
has increased its target from 20,000 to 100,000, able to handle
that many people in those camps, that means that, today,
they're beginning to try and expand the camps from 20,000 to
100,000, or they've already anticipated and have done this?
MR. BOUCHER: I think it's a combination of both. The
capacity of 20,000, of course, compares to the numbers -- 5,000
last week, 12,000 this week. So that they're in the process,
using some of the prepositioned supplies and personnel and the
planning that was done in advance, of expanding to accommodate
even greater numbers than that. You'll find, in a minute, the
same situation exists in Iran.
Q When you say that the Turks are giving assistance
to those -- food to those refugees near their border in Iraq --
are they going across the border giving it to them, or what?
MR. BOUCHER: I think this is mainly the activities of
the Turkish Red Crescent inside Turkey.
Q So the ones that haven't made it across the border
aren't getting this food?
MR. BOUCHER: Let me double-check on that and see if I
can see if there's anything going across the border.
Q To go back to my original question, have you
raised this issue? Are you bringing any pressure to bear on
Turkey to open that border? You did it with Jordan. You say
that the United Nations --
MR. BOUCHER: Jan, to go back to what I was in the
process of saying, I'll get there if I can get there. OK?
The Turkish government is encouraging the displaced
people to remain in Iraq, but those who enter Turkey are not
being forced to return.
Our Ambassador in Ankara, Ambassador Abramowitz, is in
constant contact with the Turkish Government, and we are working
with the Turks in the United Nations to mobilize the
international resources to assist those displaced persons.
And, yes, we have discussed the situation at the border
with Turkey. As I said, our Ambassador is in constant contact
with them, and we have urged the Turkish government to keep the
borders open as we work with them to take care of the refugee
flows, as we work with them in the United Nations and elsewhere
along with other countries to see if an international call can
be made that would stop the sources of this displacement.
[Iraq: Refugee Flow to Iran]
The situation in Iran: Over 50,000 displaced persons
have arrived in Iran since January 16. We know that that number
is increasing steadily now. As in Turkey, the United Nations
has increased the target camp capacity in Iran to 100,000
persons from 35,000. I'm not exactly sure when that was. In
recent weeks, let's put it.
The ICRC is expanding camp facilities in Iran primarily
in the south in Khuzestan Province. At this point, we don't
have information about plans to add relief facilities in
northern Iran. But in the past, refugees fleeing to northern
Iran were predominantly Kurds. They were absorbed without
difficulty into largely Kurdish villages in Iran.
Should the magnitude of the present migration be more
than the villages can absorb, it is likely that Iran and the
international relief community will provide assistance up there
as well.
International organizations are already providing some
assistance in northern Iraq.
We also note that the Iranian Red Crescent is highly
professional and well-regarded for its ability to respond to
large humanitarian emergencies.
Q You say that, in the past, they have been able to
absorb the flow of Kurds. This time, Iran says that the flow is
a million people at their border.
First of all, does the United States believe that?
Secondly, not in your wildest dreams could you absorb a million
people in the small villages of the north.
MR. BOUCHER: That's why I said that if it becomes
numbers much larger than exists now, we would expect that an
effort for absorption by camps, et cetera, will be founded in
the northern part of Iran as well. The number in Iran already
is about 50,000. Neither in the case of the border with Iran
nor the Iraqi border with Turkey do we really have precise
numbers of how many people are waiting to get across, or hoping
to get across.
Q Is there a comment by the U.S. Government on the
magnitude of the flight here, putting it into historical
perspective?
MR. BOUCHER: I can't really do that without knowing
what the precise numbers are that are trying to flee. We know
it's great. We have condemned the brutal way that Iraq is
dealing with its own citizens that is causing this problem.
We're working with other countries not only to condemn it but to
take care of the people involved.
Q What's the situation with the Iraqi border with
the U.S. in the south?
MR. BOUCHER: Iraq doesn't have a border with the U.S.
Q With the U.S. troops that are in the south? Is
there an increase -- there were about 20,000/25,000?
MR. BOUCHER: I don't have the numbers there. I think
the Defense Department may actually have better ways (inaudible)
but I'll see if I can get you something.
Q Is that going up?
MR. BOUCHER: I don't know exactly how the numbers are
going down there.
[Iraq: Condemnation of Iraqi Government/Sanctions]
Q Could you discuss the possible incentives we might
provide Saddam Hussein to stop all this and to treat these people
better so that they don't flee?
MR. BOUCHER: I would describe it --
Q I hear about condemnation, but I don't hear about
incentives.
MR. BOUCHER: I would describe it in the same terms
that the President really used yesterday. He said that if Iraq
has an interest in rejoining the international community, it's
not only going to have to have different relations with its
neighbors but it's going to have to treat its own people better.
That's the basic incentive.
In addition, the new U.N. resolution provides for
review every 60 days, in light of the policies of the Government
of Iraq, including the implementation of the steps outlined in
that resolution.
Let me find the words of one of my betters. Under
Secretary Kimmitt last night, on the MacNeil/Lehrer show said
the following: "Any changes in the sanctions would have to be
as a result of further Security Council action. And certainly
the policies of the Iraqi government and the leadership of the
Iraqi government would have to be taken very carefully into
account."
Q So that their conduct in the treatment of the
Kurds and other dissident groups is directly tied, you feel,
into the Security Council resolution passed yesterday?
MR. BOUCHER: As I said, the policies of the Iraqi
government are specified as a factor not only in the U.N.
resolution but also in the policy that Under Secretary Kimmitt
enunciated last night.
Q Richard, the existing resolution, as I understand
it, provides for the lifting of sanctions once the terms
specified in that resolution are met. Those terms don't include
anything about Iraq's behavior towards its civilians. So won't
additional action have to be taken in order to tie sanctions to
domestic behavior?
MR. BOUCHER: As Under Secretary Kimmitt said last
night, the action would be further Security Council action.
Council action has to be taken in order to change the sanctions.
I'd refer you specifically to Paragraph 21 of the resolution
which deals with this issue of the policies of the Iraqi
government.
Q Richard, is there a resolution now under
consideration concerning this second problem? Is that what you
said? Or is this just a discussion? Will it be a statement or
a resolution?
MR. BOUCHER: What is being discussed now is the idea
of a resolution. We are discussing with other governments the
elements that would go into that resolution following along the
general lines that Margaret laid out for you yesterday.
Q But can you be any more specific than she was
yesterday about what might be in such a resolution addressing
the problem of the civilian population?
MR. BOUCHER: I can't at this point. It's a subject
under discussion in New York and with other governments.
Q Are we seeking something more than mere
condemnation and humanitarian aid? That is, are we seeking in
this further resolution some incentive for the Iraqi government
to do right?
MR. BOUCHER: Again, Saul, we've entered into
consultations with other governments. We are actively pursuing
this. We have ideas. But, as you know, many other governments
do as well. I can't predict for you exactly how the resolution
will turn out.
Q But you can't say whether we favor providing such
incentives in this --
MR. BOUCHER: We'll discuss the elements of the
resolution with other governments as is our normal practice.
Q Does the State Department have evidence of Iraqi
forces attacking these retreating columns of civilians as they
straggle off towards the borders? Or are they being allowed to
leave?
MR. BOUCHER: I think that's something I'd have to
check. You're certainly aware that many of the journalists who
came out of Iraq in the past few days have reported such things.
I'll have to check and see if we have any independent
confirmation.
Q Richard, is there any thought of perhaps --
getting back to the humanitarian aid for these people -- Kurds
and other Iraqis -- any possibility of a unilateral effort
here, aside? Or giving more aid to the multilateral
organizations?
MR. BOUCHER: I think the best example that I can tell
you is exactly what the White House said yesterday. That we are
once again -- the United States is prepared to extend economic
help to Turkey through multilateral channels. We have been
supporting the efforts of the Red Cross and other U.N.
organizations so far. I expect we will continue to do so, and
we will continue to urge others to do so.
Q More funding is --
MR. BOUCHER: I don't have any specific numbers for you
nor can I tell you that there is a specific plan to provide more
money. But as I said, the President said that we're prepared to
extend the economic help that's necessary. We have done so in
the past, and I would expect we will continue to do so.
Q Richard, that sounds like there's an open appeal.
In the Kuwait situation, the Secretary of State actually
travelled with a large tin cup in his hand and collected
billions of dollars from such rich folks as the Saudis, the
Japanese, the Germans. Is that contemplated? And, of course,
the next question is, why not? (Laughter)
MR. BOUCHER: You had so much fun on those trips that
you want to do it again.
Q No, no. I wonder if the plight of the Kurds rubs
the Administration with the same urgency that the plight of the
Amir of Kuwait did?
MR. BOUCHER: Barry, the President had made very clear,
as we all have tried to do over the last few days and weeks, our
concern, our humanitarian compassion for the plight of the Kurds
and the other Iraqi civilians that are being affected by this
fighting. We have been supporting all along the efforts of the
international agencies that are experienced in this, that are
set up to deal with refugees.
You know that we have provided money to that. We have
also seen major contributions by other governments. For
example, the Japanese gave $38 million out of the initial
sixty-three. The coalition was a different sort of collection
of people. It had different needs, different purposes. It was
a new vehicle in achieving the goals of the United Nations.
Q You can't equate $7.5 million with --
MR. BOUCHER: There are existing experienced
organizations that are dealing with this, and we are working
very closely and carefully with them. That's, I think, the most
effective way of doing this now.
Q Well, $7.5 million doesn't approach $9 billion
raised from, I think, the Japanese, for instance, and many
billions from the Germans.
Admittedly, the Kurds don't have oil. I can't
understand the -- I guess I'm the only one --
MR. BOUCHER: What are you proposing? A massive drop
of cash --
Q I'm not proposing anything.
MR. BOUCHER: -- on norther Iraq?
Q For instance, I don't know what it's called in
logic. But to say Iraq can't rejoin the international community
until it treats its people properly, those are just words. That
doesn't have any punitive force behind it. It's a statement.
It's like saying, you know, we don't like murderers, or
something. It's Presidential rhetoric. It's not action.
When you had a problem in Kuwait, the Administration
geared up and went around the word in a massive effort; it
collected many billions of dollars to help people who were in
trouble, and I don't know why this situation is being treated as
just another Red Crescent operation.
MR. BOUCHER: What is the question?
Q The question is when you say you're asking other
people, I'm asking if anything concerted will be done, if
there's anything organized to be done, to go to people like the
Saudis and the Japanese and the Germans and other rich folk
around the world and ask them to kick in billions of dollars to
help these refugees. That's what I'm asking.
MR. BOUCHER: Barry, the international organizations
involved have established appeals at certain levels for the
amounts of money that they think are necessary based on their
extensive experience, which we also have, in dealing with
refugee populations and setting up camps and taking care of
people.
We have contributed to those appeals. Other
governments have contributed generously to those appeals. As
the President said yesterday, that we will continue to extend
economic help, and we will call on others to do so.
Q Richard, on the same line, though, today British
Prime Minister John Major suggested some emergency aid to help
the Kurds in particular, specifically them, and he had sent a
letter to President Bush, asking that the U.S. also in and of
itself send direct aid to help the Kurds. Now, where does this
-- does this (inaudible) have John Major weighing in, asking the
President to do this too?
MR. BOUCHER: I'm not familiar with John Major's
letter. I'm afraid that's really something that has to be done
at the White House. I can't tell you that. We have been
working and supporting this effort all along. We have told you
all along about the efforts that we have made, that others have
made. This is an extensive international effort. It is
established. It is working. It is taking care of the people
who are crossing the borders, and we will continue to cooperate
and support it.
Q But that's not under active consideration anywhere
in the State Department? That hasn't floated down here for your
advice?
MR. BOUCHER: Again, I don't have any new announcements
of direct U.S. aid today. I don't know about the letter from
John Major. I'm sure if there is such a letter, it will be
given every consideration, but at the White House.
Q Did you say whether the United States would
support increasing the aid, multilateral aid, to Iran?
MR. BOUCHER: The specific reference yesterday was the
aid to Turkey through multilateral channels. Our support for
these refugee organizations has been longstanding. It has been
consistent, and I'm sure if there are other appeals, that we
will contribute to those. And, as I said before, it's the
organizations themselves who decide how to allocate the money,
and some of the money that we have given in the past, I'm sure,
is being allocated to the programs that they have in Iraq.
Q So you wouldn't mind, but you're not -- I mean,
what --
Q But the Iranians already are appealing for
financial aid. I mean, they said today that they're opening
their borders to these refugees, and they're calling on the
international community to provide them with financial aid.
MR. BOUCHER: O.K. And the international community,
I'm sure, will respond.
Q I think the United States is part of that
international community. Right?
MR. BOUCHER: Well, that's right. And, as I said,
we've always supported the efforts of the organizations in the
past, and I'm sure we'll continue to do so.
Q Is the United States prepared to extend, as part
of a multilateral effort, more aid to Iran to deal with the
refugee question?
MR. BOUCHER: My only problem, Johanna, the way you
phrase your question is not in my understanding the way it
actually works. We extend aid and support to the multilateral
organizations. They determine where the refugee flows are and
where to spend that money. When they determine that there are
flows of people that require more money, they make an appeal to
the international community. They get more money from us and
from others, and then they spend the new money.
Q Well, but that's the language you used on Turkey.
Q Wait a minute. When there was an earthquake in
the Soviet Union, and when there are disasters of one type or
another around the world, the United States not only contributes
to multinational organizations, there is an outpouring of direct
aid from this country -- planeloads of stuff, money -- directly
from this country to the aggrieved areas.
Now you are hiding behind a shield of multinational
efforts, and there is no specific American effort directed at
either the border of Turkey or the border of Iran to
specifically deal with this. You're just throwing money into a
big pot, as opposed to the way the government frequently does
these things. And this is different than you normally deal with
these kinds of things.
MR. BOUCHER: John, it's different if the situation
involves many countries or one particular country, first of all.
But, second of all, let me get for you, if I can, answers to
the questions of "Is any direct money being provided by the
United States to Turkey or to Iran to deal more or less on a
bilateral basis with these problems?" or, "Are there any
international appeals specifically for those areas that we are
contributing to?"
Q There are, for example, from France several
planeloads of medicine and food and blankets that are taking off
today. The same thing is true of Great Britain. I don't know
if that's just a publicity stunt, but you don't hear about that
sort of thing from this country which normally is at the
forefront of any kind of humanitarian effort such as this. And
there's a peculiar silence on the part of this government with
regard to this issue. "Silence" is perhaps too harsh a word.
There is a peculiar lack of forcefulness in getting at this.
MR. BOUCHER: Do we have a question here?
Q Yes. I have one.
MR. BOUCHER: George.
Q Do you distinguish between needy refugees and
needy non-refugees?
MR. BOUCHER: As I tried to make clear in an earlier
question, there is international assistance for the refugees,
and there is international humanitarian assistance in the area
that goes to people in Iraq. I think I mentioned the fact that
the ICRC is set up and working in Iraq, and we've reported
before on what we did in the Sanctions Committee, and how we're
working with other governments and organizations who are
providing assistance to people within Iraq.
Q Richard, I don't understand what the difference is
between how we're supplying the aid to Turkey, and how we're
supplying the aid to Iran. I mean, you suggested that what
Johanna said is not accurate, but I don't see any difference.
What you said is you're prepared to extend further aid
to Turkey via international organizations that may need it for
whatever work they're going to be doing in Turkey. It seems to
me that you're prepared to do the same thing in Iran.
MR. BOUCHER: O.K. This gets back to the --
Q Is that wrong?
MR. BOUCHER: -- questions I said I would look into
earlier -- whether there have been specific appeals either for
Turkey or Iran, whether we've contributed --
Q Well, whether there have been appeals or not --
MR. BOUCHER: -- whether we're contributing money
specifically for those countries.
[Iraq: US Contacts with Dissidents]
Q Richard, can we get into the meetings, the
information you might have on the meetings with people you call
"Iraqi dissidents"?
MR. BOUCHER: O.K.
Q And some people call Kurds. (Laughter)
MR. BOUCHER: Barry, you got the readout yesterday of
the individuals that we met with.
Q It had "Iraqi" in 43 times, and it has the word
"Kurd" once. But, anyhow, there weren't any yesterday, but what
about today?
MR. BOUCHER: Barry, the meetings yesterday were not
with Kurds.
Q I know that. What about -- did he meet any Kurds
today?
MR. BOUCHER: Three individuals are meeting today with
Department officials in two separate meetings. One of these
meetings was late this morning. One will be held this
afternoon. The individuals are prominent members of the Iraqi
community in the United States. Two of them are American
citizens, and one is a resident in the United States.
Two of the individuals represent Shi'a Muslims, the
third is a Kurd with ties to international Kurdish
organizations. The meetings are taking place outside the
building in order to protect those who are coming and their
family members in Iraq. We will not be disclosing their names
at their specific request.
Q Is this Mr. Kelly again?
MR. BOUCHER: I think the meeting this morning was with
the Office Director for the area, and this afternoon they
couldn't tell me precisely who would be there. It depended
somewhat on schedules.
Q But we're moving down the ladder instead of up?
MR. BOUCHER: It depends on the meetings. We get
numerous requests for meetings at all levels, and we set up
appropriate meetings based on who's available, and what the
schedules are, and things like that.
Q Who's this morning, and who's this afternoon?
MR. BOUCHER: I guess I have to define that further. I
don't know if the Kurd is this afternoon, or if that was this
morning.
Q Richard, the representative of the Iraqi Kurdistan
Front, Nemat Sharif, was on a television interview this morning,
and he said that the meetings at the State Department are being
entered into by the Iraqi dissidents as mediators to arrange a
meeting between the State Department and the opposition leaders
in Iraq. Is there any truth to that?
MR. BOUCHER: I don't know if there were any specific
requests yesterday, or if there will be any specific requests in
the meetings today for further meetings. We are getting a large
number of additional requests for meetings, and, as before, each
request will be considered on its own merits. So I don't know
if those additional requests came specifically in the meeting
yesterday or if they will come in today's meetings. I'll try to
find out for you.
Q The people yesterday requested in writing -- I
mean, they presented six demands -- a list of six demands, in
which one of them was public meetings with the leader of the
opposition groups.
MR. BOUCHER: Well, one thing I do know that the people
yesterday requested in writing was not to have a public meeting.
Q Not with them, but with those who represent the
Iraqi -- the Kurds and the Shi'ites and others.
MR. BOUCHER: Well, as I say, there are a large number
of requests.
Q In Iraq.
MR. BOUCHER: I can't tell you precisely which request
might have come in the meeting yesterday or might be coming in
the meetings today, but we are at this point handling a large
number of requests for meetings.
Q What is the policy on meeting with opposition
leaders?
MR. BOUCHER: That we are open to meetings with
opposition leaders, and that we will give every request its full
and due consideration.
Q Could you say anything about the meeting this
morning?
MR. BOUCHER: No. I can't at this point. I'll try to
get you a readout.
Q Are there any plans for the Secretary to meet with
any of these groups who are requesting them?
MR. BOUCHER: At this point there's nothing scheduled
for the Secretary that I'm aware of, but, as Margaret made clear
last week, he's open to the possibility.
Q (Inaudible)
[Japan: President Bush Meets with MP Kaifu]
MR. BOUCHER: He's here.
Q Why didn't he go?
MR. BOUCHER: Why didn't he go?
Q Is he going to the Japanese meeting?
MR. BOUCHER: The President and the Secretary discussed
this yesterday. We had known that the Japanese Foreign Minister
would not be accompanying Prime Minister Kaifu to the West
Coast, so that there weren't going to be any separate meetings
with the Secretary. In view of the fact that the meeting with
the President and Prime Minister Kaifu was intended to be a
one-on-one meeting, in light of that situation, they determined
it would be best for the Secretary to remain here.
Q Couldn't he go as a note-taker -- (Laughter). Can
you give us the name -- at some point, I mean -- the name of
the, you know, the Gulf office -- whatever that regional officer
is? Later on, of course. You don't have it now.
MR. BOUCHER: Yeah. I'm trying to remember his first
name. Edward Hull.
Q What's his title exactly?
MR. BOUCHER: I think it's Director for Northern Gulf
Affairs, if I remember correctly. I'd invite you to check your
phone book, as I will.
Q May I ask a question on the cease-fire resolution.
If Iraq says it will not abide by all of the points in the
resolution, how does the United States envision compelling them
to -- for example, this getting rid of their chemical weapons
and ballistic missiles?
MR. BOUCHER: First of all, that is a hypothetical
question, because, as far as I'm aware, Iraq has not yet
indicated clearly whether it will accept or reject the
resolution. Margaret made clear last week that all U.N. states
are bound by Article 25 to implement resolutions of the Security
Council, and that we feel that the provisions of the resolution
should be implemented, whatever Iraq says.
There are very positive inducements in the resolution
to secure Iraqi implementation of it, principally the article
which I was citing earlier that said in light of Iraqi
implementation and the policies of the Iraqi government, people
would decide after further review on the status of the
sanctions.
[Iran: US Contacts/Claims Settlement at The Hague]
Q Iran -- do we have any meetings with Iranian
officials -- State Department, other agencies, meeting with --
MR. BOUCHER: What are you talking about? Do you mean
direct contacts with Iranian officials?
Q Yes. Direct contacts. Have there been any?
MR. BOUCHER: I think Margaret said yesterday she
wasn't aware of any.
Q Got to keep checking.
MR. BOUCHER: I don't mean -- there are other meetings.
Q What about the Swiss channel, please? Anything
you can say today on the Swiss channel?
MR. BOUCHER: No. We don't really talk about what we
do in our Swiss channel.
Q But there have been no meetings between U.S.
officials, outside of the Claims Tribunal?
MR. BOUCHER: Outside of the Claims Tribunal, I'm not
aware of any meetings -- direct meetings between U.S. and
Iranian officials.
Q In Europe or in the U.S.? Anywhere?
MR. BOUCHER: Any.
Q Can you rule out that Scowcroft did not meet with
Iranian officials in his --
MR. BOUCHER: That's not really for me to do that.
That's for the White House to do. As I say, I'm not aware of
any.
Q Can you say if the Swiss Foreign Minister, while
in Tehran, represented the U.S. in any of the issues that he has
in the past, or was this a Swiss/Iranian bilateral meeting? Or
was he carrying some business for the United States?
MR. BOUCHER: I frankly don't know. And, second of
all, we are not in the practice of describing the exchanges
through the Swiss.
Q You do say if there are exchanges?
MR. BOUCHER: Yes. There are exchanges with the Swiss,
but precisely --
Q Is this Foreign Minister --
MR. BOUCHER: -- when they took place, and who does
them, we're not in the habit of saying.
Q What's the status of the Claims Tribunal? Do you
have anything new on that? Where is that now?
MR. BOUCHER: It's still in The Hague.
Q Yeah. Right. (Laughter) Where is it
substantively in terms of resolving the issues?
MR. BOUCHER: Substantively. O.K. An overall rundown.
Starting last year, the United States and Iran signed an
agreement to settle 2,361 claims of less than $250,000 of U.S.
nationals against Iran. This agreement, in addition, settled a
claim of the U.S. arising out of certain assistance loans. A
dozen relatively small government claims have been settled
during 1989 and 1990.
A number of large oil company claims have also been
settled. In late June last year, Iran paid AMOCO $600 million
in settlement of two cases. There are some very large
government claims, including Iran's multi-billion dollar claims
arising out of the foreign military sales program, as well as
about 137 large private claims and 107 small claims, remain
pending at the Tribunal. We are continuing our efforts to
achieve settlement of the cases pending at the Tribunal when it
is in our legal and financial interests to do so.
Q Are we getting close to agreement on the -- you're
just talking about the unfreezing of assets, right -- the
Iranian assets?
MR. BOUCHER: We're talking about the settlement of the
specific claims that are before the Tribunal. Some of these
cases I've described to you, we've been able to settle some in
the past, and we're continuing our efforts to do that. I can't
describe precisely where we are. We usually wait until we've
settled something before we describe it.
The Legal Adviser, Edwin Williamson, met with his
Iranian counterpart in The Hague on March 28 and 29 to discuss
these issues concerning claims before the Tribunal. These were
a continuation of talks that have been held routinely over the
past year and one-half in an effort to address purely legal and
technical matters.
Let me take the occasion to reiterate, as we have said
many times on previous occasions, that there is no connection
between any discussions held between the Legal Adviser and his
Iranian counterpart and any political matter, including, as you
might ask, the release of hostages held in the Middle East.
Q Do you know offhand when the last time was that
Williamson went -- or someone at his level went to --
MR. BOUCHER: I think I just said March 28 and 29.
Q No, no. Before that.
MR. BOUCHER: Before that?
Q I'm not aware of any Sofaer or Williamson trip to
The Hague before that in a long time.
MR. BOUCHER: I'd have to check and see when one was
before that.
Q Can you characterize the -- sort of the tone? I
mean, are things moving along more quickly, more expeditiously?
MR. BOUCHER: I can't really be -- the last major
settlements were last year. The work is very technical. It's
very legal. It involves legal and financial matters solely, and
it proceeds at its own pace.
Q Richard, why was it necessary for Williamson to go
at that time?
MR. BOUCHER: As I said, these are a process that we
worked out, where in addition to the regular meetings of the
Tribunal, we send our Legal Adviser out, and this has happened
periodically for the last year and a half at least.
Q But this meeting was relatively rare, right? I
mean --
MR. BOUCHER: No.
Q Well, the question is when was the last previous
--
MR. BOUCHER: Well, that's right. At some points in
the past these meetings were held almost monthly. It depends on
the process of the cases.
Q But not at the level of Legal Adviser.
MR. BOUCHER: Yes. Abe Sofaer at one point was going
out almost every month.
Q But that was a while ago.
MR. BOUCHER: Yes. And so your question is when was
the last one before this. I said I don't know right now, but
it's a regular series, a regular process, that we've had
underway.
Q On the weapons-related claims, are they looking
for their money back? Do they want the weapons that they paid
for? Or do you know enough about it to say?
MR. BOUCHER: I think I'd have to leave it to them to
say what they're looking for. It's not for us.
Q On another matter, Richard, the leader of Soviet
Georgia says he wants the United States to recognize the
independence of that Republic, and I'm wondering if -- number
one, has Georgia officially in any way asked the United States
to recognize its independence, and can you explain the U.S.
policy on the Soviet borders, and what have you?
MR. BOUCHER: I don't know if Georgia has asked
specifically, and to explain the policy on Soviet borders, let
me get you the precise formulation.
Q It's something about 1933.
MR. BOUCHER: That's right.
[South Africa: Possible Release of Political
Prisoners]
Q Hank Cohen is quoted in one of the newspapers this
morning as saying President Bush will move to lift sanctions on
South Africa promptly after April 30, which is apparently the
day South Africa said it will release the remaining political
prisoners. Is Hank speaking for the U.S. Government? Is that
true?
MR. BOUCHER: I didn't see the full transcript of
exactly what he said. My understanding was that he was
anticipating the possible release of political prisoners in
South Africa and reiterating what our policy has always been:
that we will act in accordance with the standards established by
the Comprehensive Anti-Apartheid Act; and that as soon as the
South African government had fulfilled the steps required in
that Act, that we would act in consultation with Congress.
[Albania: Situation Update; US Protests Use of
Force]
Q Can you add anything to what was said yesterday
about Albanian elections?
MR. BOUCHER: About the election?
Q Yes. And the situation in Albania.
MR. BOUCHER: On the elections, I think I would just
add that we have -- in our meetings with the government, we have
urged them to fully investigate the questions of irregularities
which are reported in (inaudible), and which Margaret reported
extensively on yesterday. We have also talked to them about the
violence.
Let me start out, I guess, by giving you the situation
today, and then I'll report on some of our discussions. Our
diplomatic team reports today that the Democratic Party has
called for a one-day general strike in Tirana to protest the
Albanian authorities' brutality in Shkoder. They also reported
that the strike appears to have the support of much of the
capital's workforce.
We have no confirmed reports of violence at this time.
Our team has reported that the situation throughout Albania
remains calm but tense. We continue to urge all parties to
exercise restraint in the present situation and to pursue
political goals through peaceful, democratic dialogue.
The head of our delegation of our team in Tirana, Mr.
David Swartz, met yesterday with the Albanian Foreign Minister
and officially protested the use of force against peaceful
demonstrators. He also urged the Albanian authorities to
promptly and fully investigate irregularities in the electoral
process.
He was officially informed earlier this morning that
Albanian government leaders met in emergency session on
Wednesday evening to discuss the situation in Shkoder, and he
was told that the government has appointed a special commission
to investigate the killings there on April 2. We welcome the
Albanian government's decision, and we would again call on the
Albanian authorities to investigate the violence thoroughly and
promptly in a manner which is compatible with international rule
of law standards and to punish those responsible for this
violation of human rights.
In addition to the meeting yesterday with the Foreign
Minister, he has continued to convey the U.S. position to the
Albanian government.
Q On the meetings with the Iraqi-Kurdish-American
folks, there's one more meeting left, is that right?
MR. BOUCHER: That's right.
Q With one more tomorrow?
MR. BOUCHER: There will be one more tomorrow.
Q And who's that with?
MR. BOUCHER: I don't have a description of the meeting
tomorrow. I think we'll let you sit in suspense until we tell
you the wonders of it tomorrow.
Q Thank you.
(The briefing concluded at 1:35 p.m.)