US Department of State Daily Briefing #48: Monday, 3/25/91

Tutwiler Source: State Department Spokesman Margaret Tutwiler Description: 12:05 PM, Washington, DC Date: Mar 25, 19913/25/91 Category: Briefings Region: MidEast/North Africa, Subsaharan Africa, South America, East Asia, Eurasia Country: Iraq, Kuwait, Israel, Jordan, Iran, Cambodia, Japan, Colombia, South Africa Subject: Mideast Peace Process, Trade/Economics, Refugees, Military Affairs, Human Rights, Security Assistance and Sales, Democratization, State Department, Travel, Regional/Civil Unrest (ON THE RECORD UNLESS OTHERWISE NOTED) MS. TUTWILER: I don't have anything specific today. I'll be happy to try to answer any of your questions. Q Do you have anything on the Israeli deportation of Palestinians?

[Israel: Deportation of Palestinians]

MS. TUTWILER: Yes. The United States deplores this decision by the Government of Israel. We have protested this decision in Washington and in Jerusalem. Ambassador Kelly spoke with the Ambassador to the United States from Israel on Sunday and Ambassador Brown has raised this at the Foreign Ministry. I could not get for you in time for the briefing exactly who Ambassador Brown spoke with.* Deportations are a violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention as it pertains to the treatment of inhabitants of the Occupied Territories. The United States believes that charges of wrong-doing should be brought in a court of law based on evidence to be argued in a public trial. Israel's decision to deport Palestinians at this time cannot possibly contribute to the development of a peace process. We hope the Government of Israel does not go forward with this decision. Q I presume by your comments, then, that the United States does not consider this to be one of the gestures that Secretary Baker was looking for? MS. TUTWILER: Not exactly. Correct.

[Middle East Peace Process: Follow-up by Secretary Baker]

Q Would you say that this illustrates anything about the Israeli government's attitude toward the initiative Secretary Baker was trying to put forward? MS. TUTWILER: I don't want to draw that conclusion, Ralph, at this time. We've stated that we deplore this, that we have protested it in both our capital and in their capital.* * Ambassador Brown in Tel Aviv raised the issue in a telephone conversation with the Director General of the Foreign Ministry. I have pointed out that it does not contribute toward developing a peace process, but I don't want to go further in my characterizations by drawing further conclusions. Q As you know, the Secretary told us on the way back from his trip that he expected to be in contact last week with the area governments on certain specifics which he had offered them and asked them to consider. We have as yet heard nothing. Can you tell us anything about what the Secretary heard? MS. TUTWILER: I have checked the literal transcript and he used the word "probably" in referring to the week that we were discussing. I know you hate our being so literal, but that is what he said. Last week, as you know, and Richard reported to you daily, he did not speak personally with any foreign ministers. Richard reported that ideas were being exchanged at a different level. That still continues. I would like to point out two things. One, this is not the only thing on the Secretary of State's portfolio. For instance, today, he has spoken with the Foreign Minister of the Soviet Union concerning the U.N. resolution. He has calls into the Foreign Minister of the United Kingdom and the Foreign Minister of France. He was having dinner last night with the President, a working dinner with the President of Italy. He spent Saturday at Camp David with Present Ozal of Turkey. He had any number of foreign counterparts here last week working on any number of subjects. For instance, when he met with his counterpart from Morocco -- I believe it was on Friday -- "Did they discuss his trip to the region? Did he go over the four areas of concern?" Absolutely. One other point I'd like to clarify is that I cannot promise you that every time he talks to a foreign minister on this subject that I am going to be able to come down and report it to you. He wants -- starting from this day forward, there have been no conversations -- to be be able to, as I think is certainly justifiable, to have phone conversations that do not instantly have to be reported to the press by me. Q That's fine. Is there any progress? MS. TUTWILER: I can't say that there is any progress but I can't say that at this early stage it was anticipated that there would be concrete things that would be done. I would also point out that tomorrow he will be seeing Osama (el-Baz) who is visiting with Dennis here this afternoon, so there's a specific, literal meeting for you. He will continue to work on this. I haven't read anything that has leaked, so far, from any government in the region that he discusses specifics with, which is quite amazing in my opinion, and shows how seriously all governments are taking this. I believe this also shows they are doing some serious, genuine thinking about the proposals and specifics that the Secretary raised with them, most of which, as you know, were raised one-on-one at the head of state level. So I would anticipate that at not only Secretary Baker's level but at other levels, people will continue these conversations and they will continue a back-and-forth. And, yes, at some time, obviously, he will be talking to his counterparts. Q Margaret, do you have any comment on the Iraqi Cabinet reshuffle? MS. TUTWILER: No, the President made a comment on that on Saturday. I'd just refer you to what he said. Basically, I believe, to paraphrase the President, it was something to the effect that it appears Saddam is still calling the shots. Our analysis of it is that it is basically just a reshuffle of people who are currently serving him. Q Can I come back to the Israeli thing for just a second, please, John? Sorry. MS. TUTWILER: Sure. Deportations? Q And to the deportations. MS. TUTWILER: Yes. Q On the one hand, you seem to be saying -- suggesting that just because things aren't being done publicly, that doesn't mean there isn't any progress and that the governments are taking all -- all these governments, you said a moment ago are taking this rather seriously because they haven't leaked anything. MS. TUTWILER: None of the specifics. Q On the other hand, the Israeli government has done something very public, which appears to run somewhat counter to Secretary Baker's initiative. Do you expect us to think that the Israeli government is taking the Secretary's initiative seriously in private but is flouting it publicly? MS. TUTWILER: I'm certainly not trying to give that impression, Ralph. What I'm trying to give the impression of is the same one the Secretary did for the ten days that we were on this trip. This is one of the most intractable problems in the world. This is not something that is going to be solved instantaneously, overnight by waving a magic wan. This is something that he said would be a step-by-step process. He said that the United States was willing to serve as a catalyst; if the parties in the region wanted to move forward, the United States was there. All parties that he met with agreed that this was a unique opportunity. All agreed we did not know how long this opportunity would exist. This is something that he said he will continue working on, as long as the parties in the region are sincerely and genuinely interested. But there was not, as you know on the trip, a literal specific at that point that he could point to. I think at the time he used a phrase, "We've only been at this for 6 days." Now we've been back for one week; and last week, as I pointed out, was a very busy week, and this isn't the only thing he's working on. It is a very important thing. It is something the President and the Secretary, and I believe many leaders in the coalition in the area, are very, very interested in. But whether you get there or not, I think that it is premature to even make a speculation about that or to say, "Progress has been made here or no progress." I think that we have to keep reminding ourselves at this point in time we're at a very early stage here. People are still discussing within their governments some of the specific ideas that the Secretary of State raised. I assume in due course that we will hear back from them and maybe they will have new proposals or they'll totally reject some or they'll accept others. And then you will see, I think, the movement in some direction on these specific areas. Maybe not. Maybe everybody will say, you know, no dice. Q Margaret, aren't you giving the Israeli government every impression that they can take their time and this is not the time to solve the Middle East problem as promised by President Bush himself? MS. TUTWILER: I don't think the President promised to solve the Middle East problem. The President said that "There is an opportunity here, we believe. I want the United States to act as a catalyst." That's why he sent the Secretary of State to the region. The Secretary of State himself was very realistic in portraying the problems that you are dealing with, which I just said are some of the most intractable problems in the world -- facing the world. We are committed to, provided the parties in the region want to search for peace, acting in any way that the United States can to help move this process along. Everyone, where we visited, acknowledged that there was "a window of opportunity," the phrase I heard most often, to possibly take advantage of and see if there were opportunities here. I can't answer for you, sir, if that's going to prove to be fruitful or not. I don't know. Q Margaret, could I ask you on another subject concerning Iraq? Does the United States see any tilt on the part of Iran toward support of the Shi'ite rebels in Iraq? MS. TUTWILER: I really don't have anything new as far as an update to what Richard gave to you all on Friday concerning Iran in this situation. As you know, we have been and will continue to follow the matter closely. Our evidence is inconclusive. We have said -- and Richard said this, I believe, several times last week -- that material, including arms, is undoubtedly crossing the Iran-Iraq border. But our evidence on this is inconclusive regarding amounts and the effect of that support. Q Does the United States have an opinion about this? MS. TUTWILER: The President expressed that opinion on March 13 in Ottawa, and I'll refer you to the record instead of re-reading it here. The Secretary of State has spoken any number of times concerning other countries involving themselves in the internal affairs of Iraq. Our policy hasn't changed. Q You have no evidence of Iranian personnel going to Iraq? There were reports over the weekend, again, that there were two divisions of 12,000 each having gone from Iran to Iraq. MS. TUTWILER: I haven't seen those particular reports, George, and I have not seen anything here at the State Department concerning Iranian personnel, but I'll be happy to double-check it for you.

[Iraq: Civil Unrest]

Q Margaret, do you have an update on (a) the situation in Iraq, as it is now? And, also, do you have anything on Kurdish claims that Iraq has been using its aircraft to bomb them from the air? MS. TUTWILER: I just saw that report, Jan. It was just on the wires, I think, in the last 30 minutes. I don't have an instant reaction for you. You know what our policy is concerning fixed-wing aircraft. I just can't confirm it for you. I've only seen one wire copy. As far as an update, since Friday, fighting continues between government forces and dissidents in both northern and southern Iraq. In the north, government forces appear to remain largely in control of Mosul and Kirkuk although still hard-pressed by dissidents. Dissident forces remain in control of large areas north and east of these cities. Overall, levels of fighting in the south continue to be relatively lower, but heavy fighting occurred over the weekend in several locations in the general area of the lower Euphrates where the government, at least temporarily, lost control of several towns. Q Margaret, does the United States -- MS. TUTWILER: Excuse me. I don't have anything specific on activities in Baghdad. Q Margaret, what sort of government does the United States want to see emerge in Iraq? MS. TUTWILER: The President, John, addressed himself to that on Saturday with President Ozal. To be honest with you, I'd just refer you to his record. He answered any number of questions about this; basically, restating our policy, that the Government of Iraq -- as in any other nation -- is for the Iraqi people to determine. He made it quite clear that it would be next to impossible for the United States to deal with Saddam Hussein should he remain in power. Obviously, the United States Government, on a total hypothetical, which I've said before, thinks the democracy model is the superior model. But we, at the same time, are not in the business, whether it's here or anywhere else, of telling people and dictating to people what type of government they should have. Q So the United States, even though it prefers a democracy, would not have an objection if the Iraqi people decided to continue a strong military leadership, albeit under some other military leader other than Saddam Hussein? Is that what you're saying? MS. TUTWILER: It's totally hypothetical for me. I'm going to continue to say what our policy is, that the type of leadership of Iraq is up to the Iraqi people to determine themselves. It will be very difficult, as the President just stated quite clearly on Saturday, for the United States to have any type of normal type of relations with Iraq as long as Saddam Hussein is head of that country. Q But the implication of what you're saying is that we could continue to deal with a strong military leader in a government which was not a democracy. MS. TUTWILER: You're trying to interpret what I'm saying to mean that. Q That's right. MS. TUTWILER: I'm going to continue to say that it is up to the Iraqi people to determine their type of government and leadership.

[Jordan: Meetings with Minister Odeh]

Q Margaret, on a related subject. I see a Foreign Ministry official from Jordan is on the Secretary's schedule today. What's that about? MS. TUTWILER: As you correctly point out, the Secretary is meeting with Mr. Abu Odeh today at 2:00 p.m. Mr. Odeh will have a series of meetings in the Department, and he will also meet with National Security Council Advisor Brent Scowcroft. Despite our deep disappointment with Jordanian behavior during the Gulf crisis, we recognize that Jordan has a potentially important role to play in the post-war search for greater peace and security in the region. The President emphasized that point in a letter to the Congressional leadership just last week. Mr. Odeh's visit is part of a continuing dialogue on these subjects with the Jordanian government. Q Are you thinking of suspending the aid? MS. TUTWILER: The aid question is still under review. Q Staying with Jordan. Do you have anything on reports made last night on "60 Minutes" about Jordanian banks being used to move Iraqi money? And if so -- or is that something that's going to come up in the meeting with Mr. Abu Odeh? MS. TUTWILER: I have read Secretary Baker's agenda. He obviously, since I've read it, can make adjustments, Jan. It was not on his agenda to be brought up. I saw the "60 Minutes" report yesterday. On that specific part of the report, no, I don't have a comment. Q Well, is the U.S. aware of the charges that this investigator makes that up to $11 billion has been skimmed off of the Iraqi oil revenues by Saddam and members of his family? MS. TUTWILER: Yes. Q And does the U.S. believe that the charges are true? MS. TUTWILER: Without getting into that, as you know -- since it was your network, if you saw it last night -- at the end of the program there was a gentleman in California -- and I cannot remember who the United States Government officials were who had impounded his house and I believe taken all of his cars. So, yes, I would tell you that the United States Government is well aware of this. For years, Iraq has attempted to evade international controls on items it could not import. It has used front companies in a variety of places. You are all aware of the arrests made last year of people operating on behalf of Iraq to obtain capacitators and gun parts. Through the present crisis we have worked closely with a variety of foreign governments to prevent Iraqi attempts to break the sanctions, whether directly or through front companies. The Treasury Department's Office of Foreign Assets Control keeps track of front companies, and we assist them in working with foreign governments to stop sanctions violators. I cannot at this point address myself to the accuracy or inaccuracy of the figures used in the "60 Minutes" broadcast. I just can't do those totals for you of what the assets may be in the various front companies, nor say whether the assets might be held for Saddam's personal use as some portions of that broadcast alluded to, without frontally saying that they did. Q The same investigator apparently told the Financial Times that people acting for Saddam have bought up to a billion dollars worth of publicly traded European securities in the European market. MS. TUTWILER: I don't know. Q Margaret, does the United States have any sense of how many Iraqis may be fleeing to U.S. held southern Iraq? MS. TUTWILER: I don't have a number for you. You might check at the Pentagon. I just don't know. Q And does the State Department have a policy about how long it should stay there for humanitarian reasons to feed or give medical -- MS. TUTWILER: Stay where? In southern Iraq? Q Yes. MS. TUTWILER: Our policy, as you know, Johanna, is that as soon as there is a cease-fire -- which we do not have a cease-fire resolution -- and if that cease-fire, is my understanding, is implemented, then you would have United States troops withdrawing. So we are not there, number one, for humanitarian purposes to feed fleeing Iraqi soldiers. We are there for a totally different purpose, and there is no cease-fire resolution as of today. In fact, I could bring you up to speed. Over the weekend, the members of the Permanent Five met informally -- I believe only on Saturday. They're meeting again today to work on this resolution, and, as I mentioned, the Secretary himself is involved and has been involved, talking to his counterparts about it. Q Just one more thing: Is there anything on -- you don't see anything on the ground in southern Iraq that would delay a U.N. cease-fire? MS. TUTWILER: Not that I know of. No. Q Margaret, in the same line, I've heard reports from General Schwarzkopf that we're planning a permanent presence in the area, not including the U.S. ground soldiers. Can you expand on that? Are we planning, indeed, on a permanent presence in the area, particularly in Bahrain? MS. TUTWILER: Well, I think what you're talking about, sir, is CENTCOM presence. As you know, we've had a permanent naval presence since 1949, and our policy concerning ground troops, there is no change in that whatsoever, and Marlin has again addressed himself to this this morning. But concerning a CENTCOM facility, that is something for those of you who traveled with us know that Secretary Baker brought up in many of his conversations on his most recent trip as one of the things that could be looked at in a possible regional security type of arrangement. And that is something that is being discussed right now. I will not be country specific, but I would like to be very clear on what is being discussed, which is not a headquarters unit -- not moving CENTCOM, where I believe its headquarters is Tampa, Florida, and this would not be ground forces. Q Margaret, a follow-up to the story about the Saddam finances. Is the U.S. Government giving help to the Kuwaitis tracking the finances of Iraq in order to prepare themselves for the reparations and all that? MS. TUTWILER: The United States Government has been giving help and the fact, as I said, by making sure that we do our part to enforce U.N. sanctions. That is the way that I'm aware of that we have -- if you want to characterize it as helpful. We have been very vigilant, as you know, since August 2 and whenever the various economic sanctions were passed, in making sure that we as a country did our part, that there were no sanctions busters, and that we did everything we could to enforce sanctions. Q Could I try to be more precise. The story of the "60 Minutes" yesterday was putting emphasis on a kind of private investigator. Is the U.S. Government doing kind of the same job to the Kuwaitis? MS. TUTWILER: The United States Government is not doing this privately. We are doing this publicly, as you know, through our Foreign Assets Control Office at the Treasury Department. Q Margaret, can you tell us anything more about Baker's conversation with Bessmertnykh, either on the U.N. resolution or on other subjects? MS. TUTWILER: No. To be honest with you, I only heard him say this morning that he was going to call these three foreign ministers on the U.N. resolution, and all I did before I came to brief was ask if he completed the call. So I can't be of any help. Q Any further movement on the CFE question? MS. TUTWILER: Not that I know of. Q Has that been discussed since the Secretary was there? MS. TUTWILER: Not that I know of, Bill. His call today was specifically U.N. resolution-related. I will ask, when I have a chance to spend some time with him, if he indeed took the occasion to bring up CFE. Q Coming back for a moment to John's question of the kind of government the United States seeks, you answered about how hypothetically the United States would prefer to see a democracy, but you're not in the business of telling anybody how to -- what kind of government to have. MS. TUTWILER: Right. Q Does the movement of U.S. tanks into Iraq -- further into Iraq over the weekend have any relationship to telling people what kind of government they ought to have or what kind of government they ought not to have? MS. TUTWILER: I'm not in the position, Ralph, here to confirm or deny that, so I would refer that part of your question to the Pentagon. I'm just not up to speed on that. Q But if those -- if other U.S. Government officials confirm that, would that be consistent with the U.S. opinion that it doesn't try to tell another government what it ought to be or another country what kind of government it ought to have or not have? MS. TUTWILER: I have refrained since January 16 of answering any questions that I view as military operational questions, and I am not -- or cannot start today going down that avenue of why, if it's true, tanks were moved to another location. That in my mind is pure military and pure operational. Q It has no political implications whatsoever. MS. TUTWILER: It's an operational military question in my mind. Q Margaret, if I could just nail down -- MS. TUTWILER: Beat it to death. (Laughter) Q No. I'd like to try to nail down -- MS. TUTWILER: Go for it! Q -- nail it down with some specificity. If the United States has no opinion as to what sort of government the -- I'm sorry, let me rephrase that. If the United States feels it's up to the Iraqi people to select their own government, does that mean that the United States has no intention of intervening militarily on the side of one faction or the other in Iraq?

[Iraq: US Position on Future Government]

MS. TUTWILER: That would certainly be every indication I would have gotten from our President. And since there is so much interest in this -- maybe you didn't see his press conference on Saturday -- I will briefly read for you what the President said. "I don't think it is for us to see what will follow on in Iraq. All I've done is state that it will be very difficult for the United States -- in fact, at this juncture, I'd say impossible -- to have normalized relations with Iraq with Saddam Hussein in power." He continues: "I think it would be inappropriate to try to shape or suggest, even, what government should follow on. I would hope that it would be one that could work very compatibly with the Western powers, Western countries, and live happily ever after without threatening its neighbors." Q Margaret, to go back to Ralph's question about the conversation between Mr. Baker and Mr. Bessmertnykh -- MS. TUTWILER: I don't know anything about it. Q I know. But let me just follow. TASS is reporting that Ambassador Matlock this morning met with President Gorbachev and gave him a letter from President Bush. Can you give any details on that meeting? MS. TUTWILER: I have no idea that, (1) there was a meeting, or (2) that there is a letter from President Bush to President Gorbachev. I'll check at the White House for you.

[Israel: Arrest/Extradition of American Citizens]

Q And a totally different subject: Do you have anything on the extradition of two American Israelis connected with the murder of Alex Odeh in Los Angeles some years ago? MS. TUTWILER: Are you talking about Robert and Rochelle Manning? Q I am indeed. MS. TUTWILER: Robert and Rochelle Manning were arrested at their home on Sunday, March 24. They are wanted for causing an explosive bomb to be delivered with the intent to kill or injure another. This case involves the death of Patricia Wilkerson. We have requested their extradition from Israel, and we are working closely with the Government of Israel. Any other questions I have to refer you to the Department of Justice. Q When was Patricia Wilkerson killed and where? MS. TUTWILER: I don't know, Jim. I was told, to be perfectly honest with you, that I would be asked this question, and this is -- with everything else going on this morning, this is all I got on it from the lawyers. I'll be happy to get all the information from the Legal Office. Q Does the U.S. expect the Government of Japan to make up the difference or so-called shortfall between the value of its contribution as stated at the time in dollars and the value now that the dollar has risen against the yen? MS. TUTWILER: I just saw one wire copy, Bill, briefly before I came out here. I'll have to ask the experts who would obviously be in a better position than I am than just to guess for you. I don't know. Q Same general subject: I think the German Finance Minister is in town to talk about the status of Germany's pledge. I understand there's some difference of opinion on that. Perhaps the Secretary has a meeting, I believe, tomorrow. MS. TUTWILER: Tomorrow. Tomorrow he's seeing him. Q Do you have any guidance there on this subject? MS. TUTWILER: No. And I know that the same experts who have been working this subject throughout the crisis are still working the issue. Not just German specific, George. I mean the whole, entire thing. And so there is no answer for you today on any part of this. As you know, this has always been a little tricky on getting all of these numbers, etc., and from my brief conversation this morning with one of the experts who sits on these meetings, I just don't have an answer for you.

[Cambodia: Reported Arms for the Khmer Rouge ]

Q Another subject matter, if I may: Is the United States arming the Khmer Rouge? There's some charges made today. MS. TUTWILER: No. Those charges have been made before. We see them from time to time. There is no truth whatsoever to this charge. As we have stated repeatedly, the United States has never supplied any weapons or other lethal military aid to any Cambodian faction. Our assistance to the non-Communist resistance has always consisted of non-lethal support, such as tents, uniforms and food. Moreover, we have never provided any assistance to the Khmer Rouge, and we have taken great pains to ensure that none of our non-lethal assistance to the NCR has been diverted to the Khmer Rouge. Q Some arms were paraded in public. MS. TUTWILER: I don't know. I know that this comes up from time to time, or it has while I've been at the State Department, and this is consistently what our policy has been in the Bush Administration. And, as I said, we take great pains to ensure that none of our non-lethal assistance gets into the hands of the Khmer Rouge. Q Is there any specific reason for amending your travel advisory to Colombia? MS. TUTWILER: I don't know. I know that it's been amended, and I don't know what went into the thinking there. I'll ask the experts for you. Q Back on Israel. Did the Israelis respond to the U.S. protest, giving any justification for the deportations? MS. TUTWILER: Ambassador Kelly did not characterize for me this morning Ambassador Shoval's response, and I do not know yet who Ambassador Brown met with. So I cannot say that I have a specific Israeli response. Q And in these meetings, did the U.S. side raise this proposal for new housing in the Occupied Territories for Soviet emigres? MS. TUTWILER: No. As you know, in the agreement that was made -- I believe it was like two weeks ago -- that will not be brought up, it's my understanding, until September. Q On the same subject, a long shot. Since the language that you used on this deportation, it seems a little stronger than some previous ones. MS. TUTWILER: Not to me. Q It seemed a little stronger to me. I wonder whether it's safe for us to assume that one of the confidence-building measures that the Secretary may have suggested was an end to deportation. MS. TUTWILER: That is a long shot, because not that I would not be pleased to answer it for you, but it unfortunately opens up a subject matter that the Secretary himself has refused to answer any questions concerning any of the specifics that he has discussed, not only with the Israeli government but any other governments in the area. So I cannot answer the question for you. Q But he did make very specific suggestions, did he, on this visit? MS. TUTWILER: Yes. And he has revealed, as Bill can attest to -- Johanna, Ralph, etc. -- zero of them. Nor has so far any of the -- Q (Inaudible) -- I'm writing. MS. TUTWILER: I know. So, yes, he has not addressed himself to them, literally, so far.

[South Africa: Renewed Violence]

Q Margaret, can I just bring up an area that we're always being accused of ignoring, and that is -- we, the press, that is -- South Africa. Have you got any comment on the clashes and the violence? MS. TUTWILER: Yes. We deplore the police killings. The responsibility to preserve public order cannot be an occasion for killing civilians. This sort of reaction is an unacceptable vestige of the old South Africa. We call on the South African government to fully investigate this incident, and we urge President de Klerk to do all he can to ensure that the police carry out their duties in a professional and unbiased fashion. Q Have you made any representation of this to the South African government. MS. TUTWILER: I'm sure. Q I see that Ambassador -- what's his name -- Schwarz is coming in this afternoon to see Mr. Cohen. Is that going to be on the agenda? MS. TUTWILER: You know something that I don't know. I'm not aware that the South African Ambassador's coming in. I'm sure that, Jan, this has been raised through our Embassy personnel there in South Africa. Q Thank you. MS. TUTWILER: Thank you all. (The briefing concluded at 12:45 p.m.) (###)